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Automotive News & Views Hybrids & Diesels - Deals or Duds? 
5196 messages, Last post on Oct 16, 2006 at 6:55 AM
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Replying to: ruking1 (Mar 18, 2006 12:32 pm) I could go on and on about getting 70 mpg at 70-75 on the interstate, but this may have been under unique circumstances (it has happened to me for a 300 mile stretch). Saying a range without any mention of the conditions is vague and doesn't really help people get an accurate picture of what the mileage generally is. Regardless of who does this, Prius owners or TDI owners, it is still vague. I for one jumped in on the tailend of the discussion and IMO, it is unrealistic to expect a person to read through the 150 pages to know all the specifics of your commute. IMO, posts about any MPG claims should have the details necessary to get an accurate picture of the conditions and the actual mileage. And about this very dissatisfied population of Prius owners? Check out http://www.tdiclub.com and see the threads about people dissatisfied with their mileage. So the sword cuts both ways. The reality is, the Prius still has the highest satisfaction rate of any other vehicle. Since you are curious about the 100mph, one person that did 100 mph for a significant stretch reported 36 mpg. A person that drives an 80+ mph commute reports an average of 40mpg. Driving at 55mph is about 60-65mpg, through extrapolating. Sustained 45mph is 65-70 mpg. In actuality, you don't have to drive like a granny to get 50+ mpg in a Prius. During my 12 mile commute (speeds from 40-65 and lots of stoplights), I drive at or slightly above the speed limit, take corners as fast as I can and always accelarte with traffic and get from 58-62 mpg. You also previously mentioned resale values of diesels. Last time I checked (just a few minutes ago), used Pri hold their value pretty well. A 2003 Prius with 70K miles goes for $17,590, about $2.5K less than the MSRP. Not bad I'd say. With 50K miles, it is $19740, just a few hundred under MSRP! This is suggested retail price at KBB. FWIW, I don't think diesels can't be part of the puzzle, but once they meet CARB requirements, then I will see them as another viable solution. Frankly, I just don't buy the conspiracy theory of why diesels can't be sold in CA and other states. I hope that ULSD and other advances make the diesel more competitive in emissions. Doesn't look good though with VW cutting the TDI's for 07 and sounds like VW has given up on diesels in NA. Either way, getting into a pissing contest about who gets the mileage serves no purpose and makes both sides stall instead of getting the message out that there are fuel efficient vehicles aviable that work in the real world.
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Replying to: ruking1 (Mar 18, 2006 12:19 pm) 2004 Gen2 Prius vs Jetta Diesel ( Man Tran ) Gen2 Prius 60/51/55 typical user 47 ( 34 units reporting; correlates with GreenHybrid values ) Range: 34-61 Climate change rating: 2.9 T ( Best ) Jetta Diesel 5 Manual 38/46/41 typical user 45.4 ( 11 units reporting ) Range: 39-53 Climate change rating 5.2 T |
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Replying to: micheals (Mar 18, 2006 3:37 pm) I think you will find that a dealer may be able to snag a buyer for that much. If you were trading that same vehicle in. You would be real lucky to get $10k-$11k for it. Same goes for the VW TDI models that are in demand. I think the fear factor goes up with the miles more so on the hybrid than the diesel. There have been two or three posters on here that had sad stories buying high mileage Prius. Not that it is limited to hybrids. Just more things to go wrong after the warranty is up. On the VW TDI after 2007. I posted an article that addresses that subject. The question is will people be willing to pay the extra cost to bring the TDI to SULEV compliance. It will be expensive. Not as expensive as the hybrid premium. I don't know if people will pay extra to get a super clean diesel. If the price of diesel remains higher than unleaded it is doubtful.
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Replying to: micheals (Mar 18, 2006 3:37 pm) |
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Audi Sport North America made history Saturday as the diesel-powered Audi R10 TDI of Tom Kristensen, Allan McNish and Rinaldo Capello won the Mobil 1 Twelve Hours of Sebring. The new prototype is the first diesel car in the world to win a major sports car race. Diesel Rules |
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Audi produced the car in large part to get the attention of U.S. car buyers. While diesel engined cars are popular in Europe, largely because of their extremely good fuel mileage, they are not nearly as popular in the United States. In this country, gasoline/electric hybrid engines have become the powerplant of choice for those interested in saving fuel. Part of the reason that diesel hasn't taken off here is that diesel engines are perceived by American consumers as slow, noisy and smelly, experts say. Diesel Audi
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Replying to: gagrice (Mar 19, 2006 8:37 pm) Although it makes me wonder if a hybrid would ever make it in Sebring. 
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Replying to: jkinzel (Mar 19, 2006 8:50 pm)
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Replying to: gagrice (Mar 19, 2006 9:28 pm) Do folks remember that woman rookie almost winning the Indy 500, sans a man's math miscalculation on the fuel MPG????? So say an Indy car gets 4 mpg. A 37% advantage pumps that up to a whopping 5.48 mpg. She would have made history. |
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Replying to: gagrice (Mar 18, 2006 5:10 pm) To bring any car, gas or diesel powered to SULEV compliance costs money. I am sure that if you took off all of the emissions systems from any car, the price of that car would drop several thousand dollars. Gassers have had emission systems for years and we have become accustom to paying for them. I believe that a good portion of the yearly price increase in new cars/trucks is related to the increasingly stringent emissions requirements. I feel that if diesels were presented to the public as nice green cars/trucks with great fuel economy, performance, durability and simplicity then they would probably sell like hot cakes.
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