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Automotive News & Views Hybrids & Diesels - Deals or Duds? 
5196 messages, Last post on Oct 16, 2006 at 6:55 AM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: moparbad (Mar 17, 2006 10:26 am) Thank you Rudolph Diesel. GS450h mpg 27 city 28 highway mpg   " Yes, I reacted by scratching my head (metaphorically) at how the much lower mpg (than EPA readings) conundrum has not been addressed, other than to say the EPA ratings are not real world, dah!!! , but just glossed over and now put on high end vehicles!!??? Yet on the other hand, the diesel continues to be vilified. In 5 states, the sales of new diesels are BANNED!! They not only gets the EPA readings but in most cases EXCEEDS THEM. In my own case the Jetta TDI EPA is 42/49, yet my range is 44-62 !!! This is really off the shelf technology at potentially lower costs AND a 37% fuel advantage over like for like gassers. So really here is a real world situation for discussion. Greater Metropolitan Boston, MA area during the "commute". For folks that do it, it is a rolling parking lot, or a parking lot that rolls.  NO hybrid advocates are willing to say how many hybrids are needed to even make a MEASURABLE difference in MEASURED air quality, let alone a STATISTICALLY significant correlated difference!!!! Further, if they are so concerned about diesel, then they should immediately BAN the burning of emissions unmitigated home heating oil (not only is the sulfur content many multiple times higher than #2 diesel fuel, but is emissions unmitigated and burns 24/7 in the winter) !! Or force the implementation of emissions controls that current diesels are equipped!!! Clearly, the realities are to put it mildly disingenuous!!
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Today is National Biodiesel Day and it is Rudolph Diesel's Birtday. I have B20 in my tank to celebrate. 
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Replying to: moparbad (Mar 18, 2006 7:48 am) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Washington_Carver |
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Replying to: ruking1 (Mar 18, 2006 7:41 am) Wow! What an incredibly vague & misleading comment. Where is your actual data? What is your lifetime average? Why didn't you identify the transmission type? JOHN
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Replying to: ruking1 (Mar 18, 2006 7:41 am) My understanding is the laws surrounding diesel are the brain child of one man at CARB. The repressive laws are putting the CA trucking industry in a position of comply or die. The largest has already died. Clean diesel was mandated in CA back in 1993. So we have had a lower sulfur diesel for 13 years. We have paid the price at the pump. When the new laws take affect in 2007, I would anticipate two things. The truck manufacturers could go out of business for lack of sales. The cost to operate a truck under current California rules is killing the operators in this state. They haul cross country and never fuel up in CA. CARB also mandated the ill fated ZEV car fiasco. It cost taxpayers and GM billions and now they are all crushed sitting in a storage yard. When will the EPA/CARB folks learn restraint. They need a dose of reality. Not everyone can afford to jump on the latest craze to save a few ozs of gasoline and clean the air to what it was at the time of Columbus. I just watched a new Ford PowerStroke being accelerated at high speed. He belched out a huge cloud of back smoke. This is not characteristic of a new diesel in CA. In the back of the truck was a big fuel tank. My guess is he crosses into Mexico and fuels up all his tanks for about a buck per gallon less than San Diego prices. That is what happened during the early 1970s down here. People would drive their Mercedes diesels across the border to fill up and save a lot of money. I doubt the Mexican diesel has the designer label required by CARB. |
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Replying to: john1701a (Mar 18, 2006 8:25 am) The point has been made here numerous times. I am sure you will totally ignore the repeat of the point, but you do not have to drive the diesel like an old lady, as you would a Prius to get GREAT fuel mileage. So yes if I cruise at 90-100 mph, I can expect mid to high 40's. What can you expect with a Prius? You probably will refuse to answer. If I want to drive like an old lady at 55 mph (or less) I can expect 62 and higher. Again what can you expect with a Prius? Lastly, I really have nothing to prove by getting better or even worse mileage, whereas seemingly, YOU do!!?? I am just calling it, under different conditions. I really have to say however that even after 71k miles in a diesel, it still amazes me the mpg this diesel does in reality get. Of course, it is way cool that I am able to go 25,000 miles between oil changes. My oem tires look good to go till 100-125k!??? Brakes aren't even close to being half worn. It is also a source of amazement that a 3 year old car with 71,000 miles can be sold for (close to) what I paid for it new!
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Replying to: moparbad (Mar 18, 2006 7:48 am) We have two stations in San Diego selling B20. With 5 more planned this year. They are getting Willie biodiesel. He came to San Diego and was a speaker at the Biodiesel convention last month. Darryl Hannah was also on the roster. It is slowly gaining ground. It is one of those solutions that is too simple for those in control. They have to have everything complex to cover their inability to pass sensible laws. AAE said it will also use $2 million of the capital raised to develop its Beatrice Biodiesel project in Nebraska, the largest biodiesel facility in the United States. The facility will produce 190 million litre per annum of B100 biodiesel for sale in the US diesel market. It is scheduled for full production in the last quarter of 2007 biodiesel |
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..."AAE said it will also use $2 million of the capital raised to develop its Beatrice Biodiesel project in Nebraska, the largest biodiesel facility in the United States. The facility will produce 190 million litre per annum of B100 biodiesel for sale in the US diesel market. It is scheduled for full production in the last quarter of 2007"... You know your quote points out how absolutely incredulous and beyond over the top things really are!! Lets see 2 million to build a STATE of the ART facility to produce bio diesel, yet it takes almost 2 BILLION just to retrofit an unleaded gas refinery. It is almost next to IMPOSSIBLE to build ANY new 2-4 billion dollar facility!!! In the worst case (or some would say best case) you can home brew bio diesel!!!!!!!! This regulatory fiasco is just mind boggling. |
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Sidebar- Perhaps the only other carmaker as committed as VW to offering diesels in America is Mercedes-Benz. Last month at the 2006 Detroit Auto Show, M-B confirmed that it will offer its next-generation diesel technology, known as BlueTech, here starting this fall in 2007 models. The 3.2-liter V6 will be an option on the E-Class sedan and wagon as well as the all-new GL-Class full-size SUV. It was suggested that Bluetec could eventually find its way into the entire Mercedes lineup, as well as other Daimler-Chrysler products. Bluetec employs two new technologies that allow this diesel engine family to meet the new EPA requirements for NOx and particulate matter emmissions. NOx reduction is accomplished by way of either water or urea injection (depending on the appilcation) into the combustion chamber. The additional storage tank required by this system will be filled my M-B technicians during routine maintenance every 10,000 miles. Particulate matter (soot) will be removed from the exhaust stream by an in-line particluate trap, which according to M-B, is maintenance-free. Mercedes' strategy is significant in that it will initially offer this expensive new technology in models with sufficient profit margins to offset the costs- its cash-cow E-Class and large luxury SUV GL-Class. If demand for the new technology is strong, prices could eventually be offset by volume. What does that mean for the future of diesel VWs here? While VW insists it will remain committed to offering a diesel option here, the cost of compliance may ultimately determine its fate. The TDI is already a $1000 premium option over the standard 2.5-liter gas engine. Will buyers pay an even higher premium for an ultra-clean VW diesel? If not, is VW willing to subsidize the cost of this technology as a matter of principle? Ultimately, a change in tax-credit policy for ultra-clean diesels will probably be the deciding factor. 2007 diesels
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Replying to: gagrice (Mar 18, 2006 9:22 am) Incidently a major diesel "particulate" filter manufacturer is in Hilary Clinton's state. Let's hope for the sake of clean diesel, they are demo's
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