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Automotive News & Views Hybrids & Diesels - Deals or Duds? 
5196 messages, Last post on Oct 16, 2006 at 6:55 AM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: gagrice (Mar 17, 2006 6:35 am)  The current model is 45,000 at invoice. Any takers that the new model John speaks about will be less? I would guess it has more to do with higher end status and snob appeal.? Also the oems can get evenm much higher profit margins over the Prius. Most higher end cars do not get the "premium" fuel mileage. I would guess these consumers want to appear fuel conscious, while still having the "trappings." For the anticipated price of the 2007 model I can get 4/5 Honda Civics. At the current price of the current model I surely can get 4 Honda Civics.
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Replying to: ruking1 (Mar 17, 2006 7:05 am) For the price of a GS450h you can just about buy a Honda dealership. They are supposed to start at $60k and go up from there. That is without the gouge factor. It is going to be built in such limited supply that the dealers will get what they want. I imagine most will go to Hollywood stars that are tired of driving the Prius and want their old luxury back with a green halo. |
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Replying to: john1701a (Mar 17, 2006 5:40 am) No. Did a diesel engine powered Audi take the pole at Sebring? YES!
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Replying to: john1701a (Mar 17, 2006 5:40 am) JOHN E320 CDI 0-60 mph in 6.6 seconds for only $51,825. 27 mpg city 37 mpg highway. Thank you Rudolph Diesel. GS450h mpg 27 city 28 highway mpg  
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Replying to: moparbad (Mar 17, 2006 10:26 am) Our turn to drive the E320 CDI comes in a contest to determine precisely how little fuel is required to propel a vehicle weighing almost two tons over a course of 108 miles charted through the Texas Hill Country. We find that our car burns 2.42 gallons of fuel, which works out to 44.6 miles per gallon along the course. E320 CDI review |
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Replying to: moparbad (Mar 17, 2006 10:26 am) Thank you Rudolph Diesel. GS450h mpg 27 city 28 highway mpg " Yes, I reacted by scratching my head (metaphorically) at how the much lower mpg (than EPA readings) conundrum has not been addressed, other than to say the EPA ratings are not real world, dah!!! , but just glossed over and now put on high end vehicles!!??? Yet on the other hand, the diesel continues to be vilified. In 5 states, the sales of new diesels are BANNED!! They not only gets the EPA readings but in most cases EXCEEDS THEM. In my own case the Jetta TDI EPA is 42/49, yet my range is 44-62 !!! This is really off the shelf technology at potentially lower costs AND a 37% fuel advantage over like for like gassers. So really here is a real world situation for discussion. Greater Metropolitan Boston, MA area during the "commute". For folks that do it, it is a rolling parking lot, or a parking lot that rolls. NO hybrid advocates are willing to say how many hybrids are needed to even make a MEASURABLE difference in MEASURED air quality, let alone a STATISTICALLY significant correlated difference!!!! Further, if they are so concerned about diesel, then they should immediately BAN the burning of emissions unmitigated home heating oil (not only is the sulfur content many multiple times higher than #2 diesel fuel, but is emissions unmitigated and burns 24/7 in the winter) !! Or force the implementation of emissions controls that current diesels are equipped!!! Clearly, the realities are to put it mildly disingenuous!!
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Today is National Biodiesel Day and it is Rudolph Diesel's Birtday. I have B20 in my tank to celebrate. 
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Replying to: moparbad (Mar 18, 2006 7:48 am) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Washington_Carver |
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Replying to: ruking1 (Mar 18, 2006 7:41 am) Wow! What an incredibly vague & misleading comment. Where is your actual data? What is your lifetime average? Why didn't you identify the transmission type? JOHN
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Replying to: ruking1 (Mar 18, 2006 7:41 am) My understanding is the laws surrounding diesel are the brain child of one man at CARB. The repressive laws are putting the CA trucking industry in a position of comply or die. The largest has already died. Clean diesel was mandated in CA back in 1993. So we have had a lower sulfur diesel for 13 years. We have paid the price at the pump. When the new laws take affect in 2007, I would anticipate two things. The truck manufacturers could go out of business for lack of sales. The cost to operate a truck under current California rules is killing the operators in this state. They haul cross country and never fuel up in CA. CARB also mandated the ill fated ZEV car fiasco. It cost taxpayers and GM billions and now they are all crushed sitting in a storage yard. When will the EPA/CARB folks learn restraint. They need a dose of reality. Not everyone can afford to jump on the latest craze to save a few ozs of gasoline and clean the air to what it was at the time of Columbus. I just watched a new Ford PowerStroke being accelerated at high speed. He belched out a huge cloud of back smoke. This is not characteristic of a new diesel in CA. In the back of the truck was a big fuel tank. My guess is he crosses into Mexico and fuels up all his tanks for about a buck per gallon less than San Diego prices. That is what happened during the early 1970s down here. People would drive their Mercedes diesels across the border to fill up and save a lot of money. I doubt the Mexican diesel has the designer label required by CARB. |
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