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Automotive News & Views Hybrids & Diesels - Deals or Duds? 
5196 messages, Last post on Oct 16, 2006 at 6:55 AM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: gagrice (Mar 16, 2006 10:11 pm) First, since all 50 states now required to sell that "designer" gas, known as LOW-SULFUR, that claim is meaningless. The nationwide mandate took effect January 1, 2006. Second, it doesn't really matter anyway. The purpose of the reduced sulfur level was to ensure emission ratings would be retained for their entire required duration. They will initially achieve their clean rating even with really dirty gas. SULEV = 120,000 miles PZEV = 150,000 miles By the way, that is yet another compromise I have accepted. I would very much like that additional 30,000 miles. But I chose to accept the lesser distance instead. JOHN
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Replying to: gagrice (Mar 16, 2006 10:28 pm) That's not true. The newest hybrid from Lexus, GS450h launched yesterday in Japan, can go 0-62 MPH in just 5.6 seconds. JOHN
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Replying to: john1701a (Mar 17, 2006 5:40 am) It is a fast hybrid from the reviews I have read. It will get some diesel competition later this year. We shall see how it matches up to the Bluetec CDIs from Mercedes. If it gets mid to high 30s on the highway it should be a decent car. My only complaint so far is the very small trunk space. I have read figures from 7.5 to 9.9 cu ft. At this time I prefer the LS430 to the GS models. They are only a few dollars more, with a lot more room and luxury. Not sure why they did not hybridize the flagship model first.
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Replying to: john1701a (Mar 17, 2006 5:32 am) Gasoline is low sulfur but will be going to Ultra Low Sulfur (< 15ppm of sulfur). There still going to be specific "designer" blends for various regions of the country. And actually, it does matter. Sulfur poisons some of the catalysts used to control certain emissions, especially NOx. Sulfur also contributes to another serious problem or two, namely acid rain (in the form of an acid) and to global warming (same acid compounds). |
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Replying to: gagrice (Mar 17, 2006 6:35 am)  The current model is 45,000 at invoice. Any takers that the new model John speaks about will be less? I would guess it has more to do with higher end status and snob appeal.? Also the oems can get evenm much higher profit margins over the Prius. Most higher end cars do not get the "premium" fuel mileage. I would guess these consumers want to appear fuel conscious, while still having the "trappings." For the anticipated price of the 2007 model I can get 4/5 Honda Civics. At the current price of the current model I surely can get 4 Honda Civics.
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Replying to: ruking1 (Mar 17, 2006 7:05 am) For the price of a GS450h you can just about buy a Honda dealership. They are supposed to start at $60k and go up from there. That is without the gouge factor. It is going to be built in such limited supply that the dealers will get what they want. I imagine most will go to Hollywood stars that are tired of driving the Prius and want their old luxury back with a green halo. |
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Replying to: john1701a (Mar 17, 2006 5:40 am) No. Did a diesel engine powered Audi take the pole at Sebring? YES!
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Replying to: john1701a (Mar 17, 2006 5:40 am) JOHN E320 CDI 0-60 mph in 6.6 seconds for only $51,825. 27 mpg city 37 mpg highway. Thank you Rudolph Diesel. GS450h mpg 27 city 28 highway mpg  
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Replying to: moparbad (Mar 17, 2006 10:26 am) Our turn to drive the E320 CDI comes in a contest to determine precisely how little fuel is required to propel a vehicle weighing almost two tons over a course of 108 miles charted through the Texas Hill Country. We find that our car burns 2.42 gallons of fuel, which works out to 44.6 miles per gallon along the course. E320 CDI review |
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Replying to: moparbad (Mar 17, 2006 10:26 am) Thank you Rudolph Diesel. GS450h mpg 27 city 28 highway mpg " Yes, I reacted by scratching my head (metaphorically) at how the much lower mpg (than EPA readings) conundrum has not been addressed, other than to say the EPA ratings are not real world, dah!!! , but just glossed over and now put on high end vehicles!!??? Yet on the other hand, the diesel continues to be vilified. In 5 states, the sales of new diesels are BANNED!! They not only gets the EPA readings but in most cases EXCEEDS THEM. In my own case the Jetta TDI EPA is 42/49, yet my range is 44-62 !!! This is really off the shelf technology at potentially lower costs AND a 37% fuel advantage over like for like gassers. So really here is a real world situation for discussion. Greater Metropolitan Boston, MA area during the "commute". For folks that do it, it is a rolling parking lot, or a parking lot that rolls. NO hybrid advocates are willing to say how many hybrids are needed to even make a MEASURABLE difference in MEASURED air quality, let alone a STATISTICALLY significant correlated difference!!!! Further, if they are so concerned about diesel, then they should immediately BAN the burning of emissions unmitigated home heating oil (not only is the sulfur content many multiple times higher than #2 diesel fuel, but is emissions unmitigated and burns 24/7 in the winter) !! Or force the implementation of emissions controls that current diesels are equipped!!! Clearly, the realities are to put it mildly disingenuous!!
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