Last post on Oct 21, 2013 at 11:49 AM
You are in the Honda Pilot
What is this discussion about?
Honda Pilot, Fuel Efficiency (MPG), SUV
#1177 of 1186 Re: Top tier gas [kipk]
Jan 03, 2013 (10:29 am)
"... BTW, how do you know there is any kind of fee involved to be a Top Tier Supplier? How much is it and to whom is it paid? ..."
It is not a fee per se, but the gas is more expensive from the Top Tier refiners, and the stations pass that cost along.
One thing I find interesting is (I've read) that the station owner does not have a lot of choice on price; the same brand may be more expensive at a different station because that is how the refiner sells it. I don't know exactly how they determine the pricing. Maybe location?
#1178 of 1186 Re: Top tier gas [kipk]
by Stever@Edmunds HOST
Jan 03, 2013 (12:59 pm)
GM does have a "fuel engineer" (or maybe many of them?). And I assume the other makes have similar positions, but it seems to me that the people cracking the crude have the most tribologists and petroleum and lubrication engineers and that the car companies should work with them. And probably they do.
Wikipedia says "Gas brands can participate and get Top Tier listing if they meet certain standards, which includes performance tests for intake valve and combustion chamber deposits, fuel injector fouling, and intake valve sticking. Additive manufacturers pay for the testing, which costs an estimated $25,000 to $30,000, while gasoline companies pay an annual fee based on the number of stations it operates to participate in the program."
Hm, additive manufactures pay for the testing - gee, and I bet they then try to sell detergent packs to the gas companies.
Rats, and I just resolved to try to be less cynical in the New Year too. Don't mind me, just go out and enjoy your Pilot.
#1179 of 1186 Re: Top tier gas [steve_]
Jan 04, 2013 (3:01 am)
Good stuff Steve!
Appreciate your investigating and providing info that it is more than paying a fee to belong to the TOP TIER group!
And that it is more than adding. or claiming to add, some detergent. They have to actually meet the standards and prove that their "stuff" works to clean up the system and help keep it that way.
Wikipedia says the fuel companies pay an annual fee depending on the number of locations they operate. That may have to do with "Surprise" visits to various locations by the "Top Tier" folks. To keep the gas companies honest.
Can't enjoy the Pilot any longer as we got "Top Tier" money for it back in '09 when we got the New Ridgeline!
#1180 of 1186 Ethanol v Octane - MPG
Jan 04, 2013 (4:18 am)
So what role do you see Octane playing in all of this?
I tested 93 a bit from our "best" station (which happens to be Top Tier, I guess, although the other "best" isn't but still gives me superior mpg...) I found mpg went up directly in proportion to price. So I pay significantly more for a little more mpg, but after the calculations it is just about a wash (maybe a wee bit more $).
Any thoughts? Is it worth it in a 2006 Pilot?
#1181 of 1186 Re: Ethanol v Octane - MPG [whattodo2]
by Stever@Edmunds HOST
Jan 04, 2013 (4:32 am)
This post is old but I think it's still valid.
To quote Mr Shiftright, premium gas isn't a doggie treat for your car.
Since you're experimenting, check out pure-gas.org and see if you can find some ethanol free gas in your area. The price difference may still make it a wash but most people report better mpg with the "100% gas" stuff.
#1182 of 1186 Re: Ethanol v Octane - MPG [steve_]
Jan 04, 2013 (4:44 am)
Thanks! There's one literally down the street. Only available in 91 octane. Who knew?!? I may just have to do a bit of experimenting...
#1183 of 1186 Re: Ethanol v Octane - MPG [whattodo2]
Jan 04, 2013 (6:12 am)
I agree with Steve. (Gasp) Generally speaking higher octane fuel is not a "Treat" for cars designed to run on 87 octane.
Here is my take on it.
The only purpose for Octane is to slow down the speed of the explosion of the gas as it is ignited.
Note: It is not actually an explosion. More like an ignition on steroids.
Without getting into the necessity to supply extra gas to a cold engine, lets concentrate on an engine at operating temps. The gas/air mixture is hot from entering the hot environment of the combustion chamber. The piston compressed that fuel, and at the proper moment the spark plug fires and the fuel ignites to its fullest potential as the piston reaches top of it's travel. The fuel's ingnition drives the piston back down for its "Power" stroke.
In reality the plug fires slightly before the piston reached the top to give the fuel a head start, because that piston is moving fast. The higher the RPM, the faster the piston and the sooner the spark.
Computers do all that stuff now. In days of yore, we depended on engine vacuum, springs and weights, rpm slinging those weights. Sometimes , smoke and mirrors and luck helped.
High octane gas that we buy for our cars has the same energy as the lower octane gas does. No more.
For an engine designed and tuned for 87 octane, it runs best on that.
Higher octane COULD result in poorer mileage because the full force of the ignition was slowed/delayed by the excessive octane.
But there are exceptions. An engine being stressed, such as carrying heavy loads up a mountain on a hot day, towing a heavy trailer, sitting in super heavy traffic on hot days can result in the cylinder temps rising. The fuel mixture wanting to ignite quicker. The modern car's computer "Listens" for noises known as "Knock". If it hears it, it backs off the timing a bit. Yep modern engines actually have a "Knock" sensor. If you should hear"KNOCK" inside the car, it will sound more like a "Ping" or rattle.
There again, it gets even more complicated.
Suffice to say Most mfg suggest using high octane gas when towing or some other stressfull situations. It helps curtail knock and helps ignition timing to stay where it does best.
Otherwise use 87. Under normal everyday driving, higher octane cost you more and does nothing for you car.
We do get better fuel mileage with 93 octane when towing our camper, with the Ridgeline.
High performance cars and those with turbo/super chargers are another subject.
#1184 of 1186 4wd vs 2wd
Oct 21, 2013 (7:28 am)
I'm looking at getting an 08 pilot with 4wd, but I live in S. Texas. I will almost never have to drive in snow. Anyone with experience here with 4wd and 2wd piolts and the difference in mpg?
#1185 of 1186 Re: 4wd vs 2wd [bbb99]
Oct 21, 2013 (8:27 am)
I have a Honda, new in 09, 4x4 Pilot. One of the best cars I have had of about 23 in the past 50 years. I live in NC and have a home in FL and drive a lot on the interstate with average MPG of 23.0 to 25. Overall in town and road milage( I live in the mountains in NC), I average milage 21.5. Great car.
I have 44,000 + miles as of now on the Honda.
#1186 of 1186 Re: 4wd vs 2wd [bbb99]
Oct 21, 2013 (11:49 am)
4WD will cost you about 1-2 miles per gallon if you drive fairly conservative.
I had an 03 Pilot 4wd and traded it for an 09 Ridgeline 4wd, cause I needed a truck more than an SUV.
The Ridgeline gets 25+ mpg at 65 mph, around 22 at 70 mph.
Wife and I took a trip to Indiana in the Ridgeline from Atlanta area. Drove the posted speed limits. Not 5 or 10 mph over. POSTED.
Mileage was 23.6 going north and 24.9 returning south.
In the Pilot the same trip yielded 27+. Drove the posted limits with a top limit of 65 mph. Took that same Pilot to Myrtle beach at 80 mph most of the time in a light rain and got 18 mpg.
Coming back, the AC ac wasn't needed and I drove 65. That return trip yielded 26+/- 2/10ths.