Last post on Apr 10, 2013 at 12:01 PM
You are in the Honda CR-V
What is this discussion about?
Honda CR-V, Fuel Efficiency (MPG), SUV
Your Community Leader is varmint.
#813 of 836 Re: Yes.. 15.3 gallons.. [steve_]
Aug 12, 2010 (4:06 pm)
Tidester always gives me grief about that
Hey, I am just always amazed at how you can measure a tankful of gas to the nearest drop and miles driven to the nearest inch!
SUVs and Smart Shopper
#814 of 836 Re: Old Habits are hard to Break! [kipk]
Aug 12, 2010 (9:08 pm)
I've been enjoying reading many of your posts, Kip.
I would like to add though something very significant that you didn't touch on at all and is one of the primary reasons some of us, (in-the-know at least) drive manuals for reasons beyond being able to control things themselves when they want, and that is tranny longevity. It doesn't seem to matter which brand and model, the most common failure before vehicles start acquiring higher miles is with that model's automatic tran.
After debating the various virtues of an auto vs a std as being easier in stop-and-go commuting (lack of ability has to be included somewhere also) and the supposed better fuel economy (altho this applies more to the newer 6 sp autos than those of yesterday, and assuming a good manual tran driver) it really often boils down to longer, more trouble free life with stds.
The surge you spoke of, might have been Fuzzy Logic trying to decide that...oh, dif driver behind the wheel, a bit more aggressive, say, and that it was learning your style. But tromping down and wringing it out in 2nd and 3rd a few times would help Fuzzy Logic get the drift sooner rather than later. lol (i don't know this for a fact, but suspect it)..
Also, if you are not familiar with the term Fuzzy Logic, just ask and i will try to explain. You seem pretty knowledgeable tho, so I bet you're ok there?
btw, in an earlier post of yours about progressive rod stretching and discouraging stroke areas on the bore...right on! :thumb up:
#815 of 836 Re: Yes.. 15.3 gallons.. [steve_]
Aug 12, 2010 (9:11 pm)
Steve, I got a chuckle out of your 7 dec places comment. lol
I go 3 and round off to give me either one or two places. Depends on what I am calculating. When you work out your fuel bills on a heavy truck, were bills can be a few thousand a month, those extra dec places do come into play.
I will admit I am a bit anal about record keeping of my fuel usage. It can help you know earlier rather than later if you have a sensor or some other ailment going on the car or bike etc. Believe it or not I can see my mileage change as the rear tire wears on my bike. (tire life is only about 3600 mi and odometer takes it's reading off rear final drive).
I also keep track of what goes in all the assorted small motors around here, snowblower, chainsaw, lawnmower, generator etc. Gosh we are married to the almighty gasoline eh?
I agree with the block heater use, in fact I didn't elaborate but I too switch it from inside on weekends and use a timer thru the week. I do about 2.5 to 3 hours, but I am in a cold area and minus 35 or worse is not out of the question many nights.
#817 of 836 Re: Yes.. 15.3 gallons.. [gimmestdtranny]
by steve_ HOST
Aug 13, 2010 (12:27 am)
Yeah, I've been keeping track of my mileage since '74 (wish I had kept copies of my log books all these years). And a blip in the mpg can indeed indicate something going haywire somewhere.
I'm down to two gas engines and wish it would stay that way. I have lousy luck with mowers and such. Maybe if I switched brands to Honda...
#818 of 836 Re: Old Habits are hard to Break! [gimmestdtranny]
Aug 13, 2010 (5:48 am)
It was a pleasure reading your post.
As you likely know, In days of "Yore", auto trannies seemed to crap out around 60K or so. They also got considerably less mpg due the the torque convertors not locking up. Therefore I consistantly drove "Shift for yourself" trannies when possible and practical. The manuals are just plain more fun to drive also.
A problem back then was clutch life, but that wasn't a biggie as clutch plate assemblies were relatively cheap and the rear drive cars were easy to separate the tranny from the bellhousing and change out the clutch in a couple of hours, even when laying on our backs.
Today's autos "seem" to last much longer than most of us keep a new car. I have friends that keep cars forever, and they service them according to the manufacturers recommendations. Not unusual for the autos to go near 200K or so. That may also have to do with better lubricants in modern days. Also some manuals that have clutches that go well over 100K.
Seems the modern "autos" turn a few less RPM at highway speeds than the manuals, and therefore get a bit better mileage there. Local and city driving a skilled driver can get much better MPG with a manual. I'm not crazy about Honda's "Grade Logic". Darn things decide to drop to a lower gear and stay there until level ground is reached whether going up or down hill. That is when the paddle shifters would be a handy device and it is simply not an Issue with manuals.
"Fuzzy Logic" is an interesting term. If we are on the same page I experienced that a few days ago. I was driving my wife's 09 RAV4. Had not driven it for a while, but it just seemed sluggish compared to the last time I drove it. I had to turn out of a side street on to a 4 lane with plenty of traffic traveling 60+mph. No ramp to build speed for me. When an opening appeared, I went for it and noticed smoke from the exhaust and the car simply didn't do what I remembered it capable of.
So...after several forced RED LINE exercises, the logic "Stuff" clear out, and it ran great again. No more smoke, and crisp acceleration. With my Ridgeline and the Pilot before that, I make it a Point to redline once in a while to keep the shifting cam and other "V-Tech" goodies operational and not allow a ridge to form above the top piston ring on the cylinder wall. Gotta "Stretch" those rods once in a while.
#819 of 836 Re: Yes.. 15.3 gallons.. [steve_]
Aug 13, 2010 (6:43 am)
I'm not sure switching to all Honda engines is the route to go...altho I know you said it tongue-in-cheek. I can relate on the mower front. I am down to two old Lawnboys, they have the aluminum deck, built in mosquito deflector, but have lousy coils and recoils. Best mower I ever had was...coincidently, the a new one a gave to my Mom and her new husband as a wedding gift after Dad died. It was the proverbial 3.5 hp 4 stroke Briggs. Needed a wrench to change wheel height.. Her new husband had a bit of an ego thing going on, and decided that he would buy themselves a new mower after only a couple years, I think maybe so he could adjust wheel height easier? I never did find out for sure. But Mom gave me back my mower when I bought a house, so was happy to get it. That mower taught me that gas in grass eats steel. I never knew. But since seeing how badly the deck rotted out and after I ran out of places to drill and bolt supporting angle iron to extend its (what became pathetic) longevity I finally had to retire it. (the deck, I actually transferred the engine to a newer dif deck i got from a scrap dealer whose engine never got an oil change or top-up). But it never quite cut as well after the re and re. Dif deck shape I think. After Mom and her new husband died I am back to cutting with the quirky Lawnboy he replaced mine with. I guess you'd call that a full circle plus. lol
Anyway, forgive me, I got way off CRV tank capacity and I didn't even break a sweat doing it. I will add though that once I added 51.243 litres (13.56 US gal) - so apparently I had 6.57 litres left. But interesting thing about specs I discovered. This is true on bikes, and I suspect it must be on cars also. When a mfgr states a spec tank capacity, it is 'before' they add the fuel pump and assorted pickup lines and filter assemblies inside the tank. So you subtract the cubic volume of those components and then you have true tank capacity. There! We pulled that one right back around, again full circle, lol.
#820 of 836 Re: Old Habits are hard to Break! [kipk]
Aug 13, 2010 (7:11 am)
Kip, you raise some good points about lubes being of higher quality nowadays. That is quite true. I guess that I suspect std trannys are more immune to neglectful maintenance than even today's autos. If you don't change out the auto fluid soon enough, the tranny will let you know, and usually not in a nice way, lol.
I did have a std tranny failure once tho. It was in an 86 Samurai. At around 170k km (about 106000 mi) They are quite cheap trannys and used roller bearings on output shafts. No place for a roller bearing.
As for clutch longevity, that really is a combo of vehicle quality and driver habit.
As an example of how well a good combo can last, I had an 87 Pathfinder 4x4 E model, which was the 2.4 litre 4 cyl 8 valve, chain driven cam motor. A real plain jane, even power steering was an option, haha. Very rare SUV. Was a 5 sp std of course. I bought it from a good friend of mine when he started a family and wanted a minivan. Well before I got it he drove it many years and miles till he found himself having to commute from one extreme end of the GTA to the other. About 50 miles of stop and go in rush hour on the 401 parking lot. He did about 4 years of that and then was able to move closer to work again for a couple years before I bought it. I used it for another 6 years, and gave it to my nephew who (edit, was way harder on it than I was, I wasn't really) for 2 whole years before he sold it to a co-worker who sold it to some other guy who killed the engine. But it must have had well over 300000 miles at the point my nephew's friend sold it and at that point had still never had a clutch put in it.
Yet in the wrong hands, a new std driver can take a clutch out in only a few days.
I have to be honest, I wish I had kept the Pathfinder and finally gotten around to putting A/C in it. It was a good tight solid driver and was even resisting rust fairly well because it had been oil sprayed before winter most of its years.
My overall MPG on it over 6 years was 26.7 or 26.9 (Imp) I think. (edit- maybe was 24.3, that number is also coming to mind, some day I will come across my records for back then and if i remember where I posted this will update, lol) I would have to check my records to be certain. Interestingly it was almost identical to the CRV today. It was heavier too though, (2 live axles, a frame, throttle body FI). I think it was about 3600 lb.
#821 of 836 Re: Idle Learn Procedure test result on CRV
Aug 14, 2010 (9:17 am)
I had high hopes for this, Kip. I tried it yesterday, step by step....the Idle Learn Procedure.
Aside from hoping it would perfect the engine's ability for best fuel economy, I actually have a low idle condition I posted elsewhere that has no replies yet. It idles at 500 rpm. What does yours idles at? It seems to maintain the 500 when A/C kicks on, but i think that is too low.
The Idle Learn Procedure did not affect any change at all with my car. It took 20 min idling before fan first cycled. I even had my laser temp reader out (that I use for tire temps at the track and all sorts of handy times, like when a thermostat opens etc etc) Then 5 min for next fan cycle, and then during the 10 min additional, fan cycled 3 more times. After the 3rd time it was within 90 sec of that 10 min. I think i let it idle about 11 to 11.5 min. Shut it off. Waited about 5 or so seconds, restarted hoping to see a 900 or 1000 rpm idle, but no luck...still 500.
I had filled by jerri can here at home. Went to town, did a few miles of in town, refueled right up the neck again, and in 37.1 km (23 mi) I got 20.61 Imp mpg. (17.14 US mpg) And I drove gently into town on a two-lane about 55 mph, A/C on.
So that 30+ minutes of idling sure is significant. Mentioning it so that others will realize just how much fuel is wasted due to idling.
But now I am even more curious to solve my low idle situation. I wonder if blueiegod will see this post and weigh in?
#822 of 836 Re: Idle Learn Procedure test result on CRV [gimmestdtranny]
Aug 15, 2010 (5:22 am)
We no longer have the CRV, so I can't give a good answer concerning idle RPM.
I do know that sometimes at traffic lights the engine would seem to idle a bit rough, whether the AC was on or not. And at other times it seemed smooth.
My Ridgeline idles at 600-700 RPM when warm. And that fluctuates some. Don't know how accurate the tachometers are in these cars. Most likely accurate enough for general purposes but not enough for precision tuning and so forth. A tach like Tune Up shops use, or "Scan Gauge ll" would be more accurate and likely help you more. I really like the "Scan Gauge ll".
"Seems" that you did the ILP correctly. But it won't help if it was already done properly by the dealer before you took delivery.
Filling the tank to the top of the neck is not a good idea as it can possibly cause problems with the fuel recirculation system.
The only way I've personally found to accurately measure MPG is by driving enough on a tank to nearly take the full capacity to refill it. Such as wait until the needle is down around the 1/4 mark before refilling.
Do the refills at the same pump, at the same temp conditions, with the car sitting in the same place, and the pump handle on the slowest setting, and STOP when the handle clicks off the first time.
FWIW my RL will get 17 to 20 mpg driving the 6-7 miles to work in the summer. That is with the "Trip" meter reset before leaving. There may be a bit longer stop at one light than another going or coming, but it just doesn't seem it would affect mileage as much as it does, but it does. Even with that fluctuation, tank to tank seems to be right at 18 mpg plus or minus 1.