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High-End European Luxury Sedans

447 messages,  Last post on May 03, 2007 at 2:41 PM

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What is this discussion about? Jaguar XJ-Series, Maserati Quattroporte, Volkswagen Phaeton, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, BMW 7 Series, Audi A8, Sedan

#61 of 447 Re: Quality [fish8] by merc1 May 19, 2005 (9:19 pm)
Replying to: fish8 (May 19, 2005 5:35 am) Well there are two reasons for no one mentioning the "surveys" here. For one I don't think it is of any shock to people who like VWs. VW has been at the bottom of these surveys since day one. Secondly this group doesn't care about these surveys nearly as much as others. Diehard VW fans are just that and no survey is going to deter them. I've always believed that for some styling, design, performance and those small nuances that aren't easily described carry more weight than these yearly surveys. VW, Audi and Land Rover are proof of this.   M   Replies to this message: paldi (May 20, 2005 8:53 am) docnukem (May 20, 2005 9:22 am) paldi (May 20, 2005 10:17 am)
#62 of 447 Re: Quality [merc1] by paldi May 20, 2005 (8:53 am)
Replying to: merc1 (May 19, 2005 9:19 pm) The Phaeton is being built in an assembly plant in Dresden that was constructed specifically for this car, although assembly of some of the Bentley Continental Flying Spurs will be shifted there as well. This speaks well for the quality. The suppliers are mostly the same ones as are used by MB and Audi. Assembly should be perfect, but the parts?   Replies to this message: docnukem (May 20, 2005 9:22 am) paldi (May 20, 2005 10:17 am)
#63 of 447 Re: Quality [paldi] by docnukem May 20, 2005 (9:22 am)
Replying to: paldi (May 20, 2005 8:53 am) I don't doubt the quality of the plant. However, the move of Bentley is mostly due to the greater-than-expected demand for the Bentley (and possibly the underutilization by VW with less-than expected demand for the Phaeton). Replies to this message: paldi (May 20, 2005 10:17 am)
#64 of 447 Re: Quality [docnukem] by paldi May 20, 2005 (10:17 am)
Replying to: docnukem (May 20, 2005 9:22 am) My feeling is if you have the same workers assembling both, that will be good for Phaeton quality. Same for the parts - Bentley uses the same suspension, a/c, audio, electronics, engine and transmission systems as the Phaeton, plus a lot more common parts and parts suppliers. I also understand the body platforms for both cars are manufactured at another plant nearby. They also share the same exterior paint systems - the cars are painted before they are shipped to the assembly plants in Crew and Dresden.
#65 of 447 What about Audi A8? Top tier at last? by paldi May 21, 2005 (6:06 pm)
Replying to: jpvwaudi (May 17, 2005 6:37 pm) I almost bought one of these, but the Phaeton has more content for less bucks. Everyone in the automotive press says Audi is wonderful. Anyone here have one? Audi is on a roll, big grill and all! Comments always welcomed!
#66 of 447 Re: Bentley [merc1] by blckislandguy May 22, 2005 (5:10 pm)
Replying to: merc1 (May 16, 2005 8:35 pm) I love the look and the muted, bespokeness of the Arnage. I wonder why though more new S Class prospects don't snap up used ones as their daily drivers instead of an S Class? I see lots of low mileage Arnages selling, as opposed to "listed", at probably 100K or so. Stroudman, how would you propose to sell a new S Class to a customer who had located an Arnage with say 10K on it with a sell price of 100K? Replies to this message: brightness04 (May 22, 2005 5:35 pm) merc1 (May 22, 2005 8:19 pm) blckislandguy (May 25, 2005 6:32 pm) paldi (May 25, 2005 7:47 pm) merc1 (May 30, 2005 2:23 pm) stroudman (May 23, 2005 3:45 pm)
#67 of 447 Re: Bentley [blckislandguy] by brightness04 May 22, 2005 (5:35 pm)
Replying to: blckislandguy (May 22, 2005 5:10 pm) > I wonder why though more new S Class prospects don't snap up used ones as > their daily drivers instead of an S Class?   Time is money. To some people, cherry-picking a used car is not worth the time or anguish. That may account for a large proportion if not the majority people who are shopping $100k. I failed to convince my wife to consider a used at $35k level, twice in a row.
#68 of 447 Re: Bentley [blckislandguy] by merc1 May 22, 2005 (8:19 pm)
Replying to: blckislandguy (May 22, 2005 5:10 pm) I think there might be a few reasons as to why an S-Class buyer wouldn't buy a used "Bentley". For one most might think that a Bentley would be a pain to service and maintain. Yeah Mercedes' rep has taken a beating, but they still aren't on the level of "care" that a Bentley needs. Secondly how many Bentley dealers are there in the average S-Class market? In Chicagoland there are only 3 and they're miles and miles apart. I just don't think think Bentley clicks to the "working rich" in the same way a S-Class does, imo. Especially when the Benz is a "new" car as opposed to a "used" on that still cost 100K. Something about that wouldn't appeal to me if I had 100K to drop on a car. I'd want something "new". Mercedes' are everyday cars too, I doubt if someone would drive a Bentley to the office everyday. Mercedes-Benzes for all their glamor and giga-hp models are still utilitarian when it comes to their non-AMG sedans.   Now for the group that has money to burn Bentley is all the rage. I would suspect that big drop in Mercedes CL sales is due to the Continental GT being not too much more expensive. For the average CL500 (100K) buyer 165K+ might be a stretch for some of them, but for a CL600, CL55 and of course a CL65 buyer this new Bentley Continental GT is easily within their reach.   The Continental GT is hugely popular because of its pricepoint. All the while growing up and noticing cars it was a rare even to ever see a "Bentley" and it still isn't a regular think to see an Arnage, but this Continental GT I see almost on a weekley (daily on the the weekend) basis. And not just in the burbs where I live, I've even seen them in the old neighborhood where I grew up.   Now the even bigger question will be, depending on where Bentley prices the Continental Flying Spur, is whether or not it will have the same effect on the S-Class and the new S due this time next year.   M Replies to this message: blckislandguy (May 25, 2005 6:32 pm) paldi (May 25, 2005 7:47 pm) merc1 (May 30, 2005 2:23 pm)
#69 of 447 nice site by ffb13 May 23, 2005 (4:31 am)
as an owner of these types of cars ( jaguar,porsche,mb,bmw ) this is an interesting site.   my two bits...........my opinions.......   phaeton .............yesterday's news. i wanted one badly ,until i took 3 or 4 test rides..........and visited 4 or 6 dealerships ..........what a desilusionment ,... someone from vw corporate should send some of these guys to finishing school.............only one good dealer ,in conn. ,from the lot i visited ........been to the dresden factory......great .......just incredible, but the product does not live up to its billing.............. i predicted when the phaeton first came out that this factory would build something else ...... it is the bentley. goodbye phaeton. too much car , too complicated ,and poor dealer network to support such a market niche.   bentley............great ,nice ,the car to own,but given that i travel 4 or 5 times per year from florida to the north east ,i am concerned about the lack of dealers ,and service..........(i hate the airbuses ) also, an overpriced vw lies beneath that bentley name.....now ,the arnage ,this is something else and special.........rides like an suv, but what class..........   a8...............great car ,but reliability keeps cropping up.........and still a disguised vw.....could be a great car and the a 8 is such.........but reliability ??????   mercedes.............with their downturn in quality of materials and assembly ,and the total reliance in electronics......i have stayed away ..... i still own their pinnacle car,a 1989 420sel with 240,000 miles. and ,looking to buy another one .........best car ever made .   recently saw the S 350.................looking good..............but, there is the ls430 from lexus which is a far superior product from almost any aspect. it also beats all the S sedans ,in the usa......   bmw ......relying too much on past reputation. no longer a drivre's car. almost got the 6 series until i looked in the trunk and found a bunch of computer parts where the spare tire should go............run flat tires can only be fixed in few places ,at a premiun, and no stock for a quick replacement...............   infinity.......got the fx , and still like it , has been great unlike the european cars that i have owned in the past and still own. great reliability over the same time period and mileage experienced with the other cars.but the new m series ,though good,.too much like the fx in ride quality,too similar . . but , this is the car to get for those of us who have owned bmw's in the past..........it does not have the crude but great ride of the old 635 which i kept for many years, but it is more refineed and fun.and reliable.   would buy this one over any german or british car. it has what it takes to be a driver's car.   rl...............an oversized honda accord for $50.0...................nice ride ..........but still an oversized accord...   quality -----if you read the german press ,you will note that in germany,german cars are rated way ,way lower than the japanes cars...troubling signs for the german car industry.   porsche ... the new 911 is no longer a sports car but a gt............my brother has one and i do not like the feel of the steering ....and ,the motor blew after 7,000 miles. has been replaced under warranty..................get the 993. Replies to this message: merc1 (May 23, 2005 8:24 pm)
#70 of 447 ffb by seminole_kev May 23, 2005 (5:15 am)
Not sure what happened, but the formatting of your post is strange. Makes it difficult to read. Did you compose the message in a different editor and then paste it into the Townhall?

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