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High-End European Luxury Sedans

448 messages,  Last post on May 03, 2007 at 3:41 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum.

What is this discussion about? Jaguar XJ-Series, Maserati Quattroporte, Volkswagen Phaeton, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, BMW 7 Series, Audi A8, Sedan

Messages Page 41 of 45

#399 of 448 Re: S8 [designman] by garyh1

Dec 16, 2005 (4:22 pm)

Replying to: designman (Dec 16, 2005 3:37 pm)
Whuh?? You're agreeing with yourself? Either you read that wrong or I could have presented the dialogue better.
 
I love it! Merc finally found someone he could agree with completely 100% of the time - himself! ROFL
 
Actually, consistency is not such a bad thing. Some of the rest of us have been known to change our opinions somewhere between the beginning and end of a single post!

#400 of 448 Re: S8 [designman] by garyh1

Dec 16, 2005 (4:45 pm)

Replying to: designman (Dec 16, 2005 1:34 pm)
To me, Rolls is a monolith, its elements and sheer being transcend time. That grille is the Parthenon. How can you look at the Parthenon and say you don't like it? It rises above fashion so it does not really lend itself to taste, I think. If they try to fashion it, I believe it will fall into the muck. The car is not really a vehicle, it’s a venue. It’s the Plaza Hotel.
 
Ah, the Plaza. It hits my heartstrings the same way. Just seeing it elicits the best feelings of NYC for me. Of course, then you go around a corner and get stuck in a smelly, dirty, congested side street and the other side of Manhattan hits you. Anyway, back to cars...
 
I agree that the Rolls is monolithic, but unlike the Parthenon, it gets modified over time by other than the elements. It does need to be a standup car, not low slung (I seem to recall they tried to do this once with the convertible and it looked silly to me). But this new version is just too too squared off for me. Instead of subtly classic and simple, it comes off as IN YOUR FACE square. In that sense it almost reminds me of the 300. The RR can and should say "I don't need to swoop to be fashionable", but it doesn't need to say "I am so staid that I don't care if you cut yourself on my sharp edges".
 
Sorry for all the design similes, but you got me going with that Plaza allusion. I guess I just won't be pulling up in front of it with my 2006 RR.

#401 of 448 Re: S8 [designman] by merc1

Dec 17, 2005 (11:37 am)

Replying to: designman (Dec 16, 2005 3:37 pm)
Whuh?? You're agreeing with yourself? Either you read that wrong or I could have presented the dialogue better.
 
Maybe I read it wrong I guess???? I was saying that I've jumped up on down on a table in disgreement with some of the things you've said about styling on certain cars before. I think thats what I meant.
 
M

#402 of 448 Gorgeous by merc1

Dec 18, 2005 (11:19 pm)

Some interesting pics from a link in my monthly email from Maserati.
 

 

 

 
I was somewhat delighted to read this about the Quattroporte's sales:
 
Maserati's Quattroporte is dominating sales of luxury sport sedans over $100,000 despite and in part because of its limited production. American consumers are showing they appreciate Quattroporte's unique balance of performance, style and cachet by more than 3:1 over BMW's 760i and 760Li combined.
 
The segment in which the Quattroporte will win the 2005 sales race includes the BMW 750iL, 760i, and 760Li, the Bentley Flying Spur, and the Mercedes S55, S65 and S600. Those who have driven them all will attest that, while the Quattroporte shares a price segment with the others, it stands alone on the road. Source
 
I wouldn't doubt the "on-the-road" observation from a sport sedan point of view compared with those cars. I would love to see the sales numbers for each though. In that last paragraph they must mean that the Maser is going to outsell the 760i and 760Li together, and the 750Li seperately as a single model. Is the Quattroporte really going to outsell the 750Li? The Mercedes S55/S65 and Bentley are all more powerful, but heavier, a lot heavier in the case of the Bentley Flying Brick. The BMW 760i Sport is a sporty car, but I would imagine that not even it has the reflexes and charisma of the Maserati. Too bad there is no "M7". None of these have a SMG type gearbox and only the Bentley can compete with the Maser on a "custom feel" point of view when it comes to the interior, but even then some of its VW switchgear pokes through. Interesting bunch of cars though, not a boring one in the bunch. I wonder Maserati thinks of the Jaguar XJ Super V8 P. Oh, there is one company that could make a sedan to match the Maser in every way, but they don't make one at the moment, Aston-Martin.
 
Interesting they don't consider the M5 or CLS55 competitors. Alrightly then lets see a comparo between the 760i Sport, S55 AMG, XJ Super V8 Portfolio, and Quattroporte then, one of you U.S. magazines!
 
M

#403 of 448 Re: S8 [designman] by merc1

Dec 18, 2005 (11:51 pm)

Replying to: designman (Dec 16, 2005 1:34 pm)
Oops I read that wrong. I didn't see that you were merely presenting our previous conversation.
 
M

#404 of 448 Jaguar by merc1

Dec 18, 2005 (11:55 pm)

I forgot, "Gorgeous" is Jaguar's line isn't it?
 

 

 
Does it apply? You be the judge.
 
M

#405 of 448 Re: S8 [merc1] by anthonyp

Dec 19, 2005 (2:00 pm)

Replying to: merc1 (Dec 18, 2005 11:51 pm)
The Masseratti(sp) is a great looking car, but apparently there are some nusances to be worked out, according to some owners...I wonder how the sales of it compare to the Audi w12....Tony

#406 of 448 Re: Gorgeous [merc1] by lovemyclk

Dec 19, 2005 (3:56 pm)

Replying to: merc1 (Dec 18, 2005 11:19 pm)
I think the CLS55 is an obvious ommission from the Maser competitor list... has a much more distinct and custom-coach feel than the more "mainstream" competitors. Believe the M5 leans so much more toward the sport side of the equation, than it won't be cross-shopped (as much) against the Maser like the stated competitors + the CLS55!

#407 of 448 Re: S8 [anthonyp] by merc1

Dec 20, 2005 (12:54 am)

Replying to: anthonyp (Dec 19, 2005 2:00 pm)
Well unless something has changed, the A8 W12 is a 150-200 unit-per-year car here in the U.S. I've only seen one since it came out.
 
M

#408 of 448 Re: Gorgeous [lovemyclk] by merc1

Dec 20, 2005 (12:59 am)

Replying to: lovemyclk (Dec 19, 2005 3:56 pm)
Actually I think the M5 is a direct competitor to the Quattroporte also because they both have SMG-style trannies and both are thoroughbred sports sedans that make no apologies.
 
It is quite easy to beat the cars Maserati mentioned on dynamics and sheer driving excitement, but it is a lot harder to do that to the CLS55 and especially the M5.
 
Would have seemed hard to believe a few years ago, but the Cadillac STS-V actually competes in this league. Audi has an interesting pair of competitors too for the Quattroporte, the already announced S8 and upcoming S6/RS6.
 
What a wonderful time to be a high-end sports sedan buyer!
 
M

Messages Page 41 of 45

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