Last post on May 03, 2007 at 3:41 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Jaguar XJ-Series, Maserati Quattroporte, Volkswagen Phaeton, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, BMW 7 Series, Audi A8, Sedan
#223 of 448 New S is Throw Up Ugly
Sep 13, 2005 (7:32 pm)
I don't think I've ever seen photos of a new 'brand defining' car that is so ugly as the shots from the Frankfurt Auto Show of the new Mercedes S. It looks like it was designed by some goofy committee that was picking up cues from the auto junkyard.
The wheel arches are terrible and unnecessary. The wheels themselves are available at the Lexus store for the LS400 from 1997 - 2000.
If this the 'bet your company flagship', these folks are in deep sneakers. It's the worst looking car I've seen since the new BMW 7 a few years ago.
No style, no sense of unity, no integrated stance like the MB S of the 'old days'. This is one porker.
Just one person's view ....
#224 of 448 new 7 series is ghastly, not the S class
Sep 13, 2005 (10:08 pm)
I don't like the rear of the new S-class of the interior, but the trunk doesn't copy the 7 series because the 1998 Maybach concept predated the trunk of the new 7 series.
I can't stand the new BMWs coming from the previous ones.
#225 of 448 Re: new 7 series is ghastly, not the S class [xkss]
Sep 14, 2005 (3:58 am)
But they are selling like hotcakes. Somebody likes them.
#226 of 448 Re: Reputation...... [dfc3]
Sep 14, 2005 (4:16 am)
In my circles, MB is still tops. I worked at a fast growing company, where the execs were getting BIG increases in comp each year. My boss was a perfect example; he started with a Honda Civic. When he started making good money, he bought a Lexus. Once he struck it rich, he moved to a Mercedes. The CEO of the company bought a Mercedes. So did the CFO.
MB is definitely still tops in prestige, among the mainstream luxury brands. But what happens as people aquire more money depends on their personal wants, including how much the prestige factor matters to them. I went to a Microsoft meeting back in 1995 and the top guys like Ballmer and Gates had indivdually labelled, reserved spaces at the building it was at. Those spaces had 3 LS400s in a row...and no other brand. It is well known that Gates has had LS cars for awhile (among others), and I think some of the other execs followed his lead. Even back then, Ballmer was worth 10 figures.
#227 of 448 Re: Reputation...... [syswei]
Sep 15, 2005 (7:29 pm)
I'll bet you Dell doesn't drive a Lexus. No Buicks for a guy like him.
Incidentally, this mornings WSJ had a big article beginning on page one of the second section on Jaguar's future plans. Seems they are still working on a strategy. Their immediate concern is to cut costs without hurting the value proposition. IMHO they seem to have a good line up, priced right, with some interesting variants (the R models, the AWD X type "Estate Wagon, etc.). Problem is the X Type is going away and nothing is selling. I think Jags marketing is invisible and/or inept.
I talked with an MD today in his mid 60's who has owned them all: an S Series with the V12, the 911 C4 (awd), a raft of Bimmers, etc. You would think that he would be ready to settle into an XJ8 SuperV8. Nope, He has his eye on the Maserati coupe that is getting good reviews.
#228 of 448 Re: Reputation...... [blckislandguy]
Sep 15, 2005 (7:35 pm)
Wow, I missed that article in the WSJ somehow, I'll check it out in the morning, hopefully the janitors won't throw it out - but as luck would have it, this would be the first time in history, they will.
No question in my mind, the marketing (or lack thereof) is a big part of the problem at Jaguar. I think they have a pretty good and consistent lineup as well. But nobody knows it, and the ads they do run, are stiff and ethereal. Somebody needs to tell the story about how reliable they are now, and how much engineering is in them. Because, people still think they have lucas electronics and stall at will and leak at every joint like they used to.
#229 of 448 Re: Reputation...... [nvbanker]
Sep 15, 2005 (7:48 pm)
That's true. Jaguar seems to be one of those brands that doesn't really advertise; in that the most prestigious brands generally don't need to. Yet... Jaguar had some serious problems a few year's back - and they've worked to correct them. Not sure how much the mainstream knows about the earlier problems though.
#230 of 448 Re: Reputation...... [dfc3]
Sep 15, 2005 (7:53 pm)
I think that's all the public knows....
Sep 15, 2005 (9:32 pm)
I'm not sure where you all are, but here (Chicago area) Jaguar advertises all the time, especially for the S-Type. Most of the time during the evening and nightly news. They seem especially proud of their standings in the sales satifaction surveys by JDP.
What Jaguar needs is two platforms. One for the S-Type, XJ and XK. This is pretty much a done done once the S-Type is redesigned because the XJ and new XK already share the same platform.
Then, and I know this won't happen, Jaguar needs a new small rwd platform that could support a real rwd sports sedan (not the lame awd X-Type) and that stunning F-Type sports car they showed a few years ago. Mercedes and BMW do the same thing with the C/CLK/SLK and 3-Series/Z4 respectively. Ford isn't going to or doesn't have the money for this to happen.
Jaguar is taking the exclusive, low-volume approach which may work, but they need the next S-Type to be a big hit because the XJ and XK can't save Jaguar alone.
#232 of 448 Re: Jaguar [merc1]
Sep 16, 2005 (6:43 am)
Interesting. Must be a regional thing. Ironically I recently moved to the Chicago area from Maryland. With a name like "merc1", I should ask you your experience with the Mercedes dealers in the area. I'm seriously considering a new purchase soon.