Last post on May 03, 2007 at 2:41 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Jaguar XJ-Series, Maserati Quattroporte, Volkswagen Phaeton, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, BMW 7 Series, Audi A8, Sedan
#211 of 448 Market Share
Aug 22, 2005 (5:50 pm)
People seem to forget that although BMW may be selling slightly more 5-Series cars than they did in 2002, they are losing market share to their competition. Since 1997 the high end luxury car market has grown at annual rates between 7% and 11% in the U.S. The gain that BMW may show over their previous models does not sustain that growth factor. Now look at annual growth rates of Lexus, Infiniti, and Audi during the same period and you will see their large market share gains.
The E-65 7-Series and the E-60 5-Series may be selling better than the models that they replaced, but they are not at plan for BMW.
P.S. - I'm no BMW basher, I still own one and I love it.
#213 of 448 Re: Sales etc. [kdshapiro]
Aug 22, 2005 (6:23 pm)
KD, Trump has not come back in real estate. I think he has lost his--and everyone else's shirt. Where he has come back is in show business because he reinvented himself as "the Donald."
ffb has it right. It is all in positioning. Troutman and Reis, the marketing guys who developed the idea of positioning talk about the importance of being number one. We never, ever forget our first love, or our first car. The problem is that once you are toppled from the throne you have a hard time getting back on top. Will anyone ever hear something ever again described as the "Cadillac of ..."? (For those of you under 30, this was a phrase one heard daily in retail in the US up until the late mid 70's.) I don't think so.
Jaguar builds an XJ sedan that costs 10K less and has demonstrably more reliability than anything else in the high end lux segment. Yet they can't sell them because people still think that a Jag is unreliable. SAAB was "the" winter car among the professoriat, people living in New England, and free thinkers. Along came Suburu with AWD and Volvo with more amenities and you can't give a SAAB away.
This is the problem that MB faces.
#214 of 448 Re: Sales etc. [blckislandguy]
Aug 23, 2005 (2:29 am)
" I think he has lost his"
It depends if you think some of his big current/planned projects don't mean much...
"Yet they can't sell them because people still think that a Jag is unreliable."
Maybe they can't see them because people do not know what a Jag-U-ar is anymore. I was a lover of the brand years, but I don't know what it is today. They didn't stick to their mission. You can't come back unless you come back stronger than what people recognized you for.
Some people here may think MB is washed up, I don't think so. Nobody has a crystal ball, MB is a tough organization that knows what their mission is.
Aug 23, 2005 (1:05 pm)
I think it to be a shame that maybe Mercedes won`t get the chance to put to rest it`s problems, as the car s500 nicely equiped cost is going to be above a hundred thousand...I would think if they were to help with the lease them maybe enough people would buy one and it work great....If a person pays for one, the number is likely to meet with resistance....We`l all see soon enough....Tony
#217 of 448 Spotted: New Mercedes Werkswagen!
Aug 29, 2005 (5:04 am)
Subliminally - this car werks!
When I spotted this, I thought someone put "Volkswagen" on the trunk. What are they thinking?
#218 of 448 Reputation......
Sep 13, 2005 (4:46 pm)
In my circles, MB still has the cache of being the Cadillac of things, if you know what I mean.
BMW is disdained for the WhaleTail look, yet, has sold more than ever since it debuted. The I-drive is a disaster both from an ergonomics point of view, and reliability - yet, they are selling more of them than ever AND, MB & Lexus are going to an I-drive of some sort.
Lexus is the fastest growing luxury car in North America - and will likely overtake both MB & BMW combined at some point -not because they're more beautiful, as that would be a real stretch to say, but because they are cheaper, yet more reliable - what Toyota does best. Also, they do what they're supposed to do in spades.
I remember Nickoseal (sp) engines failing at BMW not too long ago, and they survived, yet, had I had one, I'd be furious and never be back. Cadillac is supposedly making a comeback, but I don't know anybody who used to drive a Mercedes, that now owns a Cadillac. I do know some former Lexus owners who do, but mostly it's Lincoln owners who have Cadillacs in their driveways now. I guess they're back from the pathetic cars they were in the 80's and 90's, but will they ever compete with the foreign makes? I doubt it. Lincoln has decided not to try - they can't afford it, plus they have Jaguar and Aston Martin to refer people to.
#219 of 448 Re: Reputation...... [nvbanker]
Sep 13, 2005 (5:32 pm)
Nice summary of the high end market. It would be hard to disagree with any of your observations.
#220 of 448 Re: Reputation...... [blckislandguy]
Sep 13, 2005 (6:22 pm)
A few things:
1. In my circles, MB is still tops. I worked at a fast growing company, where the execs were getting BIG increases in comp each year. My boss was a perfect example; he started with a Honda Civic. When he started making good money, he bought a Lexus. Once he struck it rich, he moved to a Mercedes. The CEO of the company bought a Mercedes. So did the CFO.
2. Smart Money magazine came out with their 2006 rankings; they listed the Lexus GS 300 as the top Luxury Sedan.
I know these comments are contradictory; I'm not expressing an opinion - just some points....