Last post on Oct 22, 2008 at 7:14 AM
You are in the Prices Paid - Buying & Leasing Experiences
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Scion tC, Coupe
#30 of 114 Dealer from Hell
Jul 16, 2005 (12:48 pm)
My wife and I went into Riverside Scion in Tulsa, OK to by a TC. After the
experience we had we bought a Civic EX sport instead, our first non-Toyota in 20
years and I've come to the conclusion that Toyota customer Service is dead.
Here's a copy of the Email I sent to Riverside and to Scion.com. Their reaction
was basically thanks we'll look into it, nothing from either for 2 weeks
To Sales Manager or whom it may concern,
My wife and I came onto your lot on 11th St. this morning to look at a new Scion
TC for my wife. The salesperson who came to help us proceeded to ignore my wife even though she spoke to him first until I told him that he needed to talk to her as it was to be her car and her decision. He asked the reasonable question of when we were thinking of buying, she replied that we would be buying within the next week but would most likely have to order because she wants the Azure pearl color with several body accessories and a 5 speed stick. After that the entire experience went downhill, he kept pushing her toward the red 2005 even after being told several times she didn't like the
color, did not want an automatic, and wanted a 2006. He finally went in to get
the keys so she could test drive the 2006 manual Black Cherry Pearl but he came
back with the keys to the 2005 red auto. She was upset but went ahead and drove
it to feel out the ride and how the AC worked etc. During the test drive (I was
in the back seat) he kept looking at his watch, tried to dissuade her from
getting on the highway and after about 5 minutes just started guiding her back
to the dealership. All during this drive he kept pressuring about this car, he
seemed incredulous to the point of insult that she would want a stick and stated
at least twice that color wasn't an important criteria. We both found his
attitude to be derogatory and rude. All in all it was one of the worst
experiences we have had at a dealer and we will be buying a Scion but it won't
be from Riverside and you can thank (BLANK)for that.
So mad after 2 weeks bought Civic Instead.
#31 of 114 "Pure Pricing" - NOT TRUE
Jul 16, 2005 (9:38 pm)
On the Scion website, you read the following about the "pure pricing" concept: "Pure Price means that the price you see posted – whether on a windshield, in an ad, or on a menu display in the dealership – is the price you will pay. This includes vehicles, accessories, and even finance and insurance products. All our prices are clearly posted."
Now, here's the trouble - as I learned today at the Walnut Creek, CA Toyota/Scion:
This is not true; the prices you see on the website are not guaranteed, and the dealers can - and will - charge ABOVE the "the price you see posted".
Today I went in to buy a Scion and began asking for the accessories I wanted. They were charging HORRIBLY above the website prices. Here's one example:
LED Light Enhancements: website - $250, Walnut Creek - $299
(for those doing the math at home - approx 20% markup above MSRP on the accessory)
I sat there furious as the dealer/salesman explained to us that "Pure Pricing" does NOT mean all dealers charge the same price! Instead, you negotiate on the accessories/add-ons that make the car! So what you have to do is go to all of the various dealer-websites and look to ENSURE they will sell you your car at the website price!
I'm infuriated, because there's nothing "pure price" about this - I'm now treating the purchase as a typical car purchase, and now haggling with a few dealers to knock the prices down on those accessories. I found two that will charge MSRP as the max, and found that many of the other dealers in my area (SF Bay Area) just charge above MSRP and rely on the false claim of "pure pricing" to mislead consumers into thinking the price they get at ANY single dealer is the same at any OTHER dealer!
I just can't wait to hear about the first class action false advertising claim on this one!!!
On another note, I've been trying to buy a Scion TC for weeks.
The first dealer lied and told me he had every color in stock (I wanted to see the colors on the car before making up my mind), and when I got there, he had only silver (Magnussen Toyota);
The second dealer lied and told me that black cherry is a discontinued color, so I should come on down NOW and buy the flint-black one he was going to sell me, but it was ready to head out the door so I had to make it in FAST (Burlingame Toyota);
and the third was Walnut Creek, where I showed up, looked at the car, was prepared to take it, and learned of this dealer-by-dealer markup after I was halfway through the financing application.
So my advice to folks is this: CHECK THE DEALER WEBSITE BEFORE YOU GO TO THE DEALER. Because not all dealers charge the same. And if you don't believe me, compare the following four bay area dealers:
Magnussen Scion (Palo Alto, CA) (charges msrp)
Walnut Creek Scion (Walnut Creek, CA) (charges above msrp on many options)
Fairfax Scion (Fairfax, CA) (charges above msrp)
Also, many dealers CANNOT give you the options you want - the Walnut Creek guy had no idea what the "ipod compatible" feature was, and gave me the price of $395 (the website cites $260 as the MSRP on this feature).
To say I feel misled is about half of the story - I feel downright lied to by the Scion hype.
#32 of 114 Re: No haggle? Really? [got_vtec]
Jul 16, 2005 (9:40 pm)
No, not really.
I learned today that the "pure pricing" does NOT include accessories when the dealer I visited wanted to charge me almost $200 above the MSRP on the accessories I wanted for the car. The accessories differ from dealer to dealer.
So yes, there is haggle room indeed.
#33 of 114 Re: Dealer from Hell [mike84]
Jul 16, 2005 (9:45 pm)
I'm having the same experience; it's been 2 weeks of me trying to find a dealer I can stomach doing business with.
They lie about the inventory in stock, and I've been lied to about the colors' availability (at the Burlingame, California Scion dealer I was told black cherry is discontinued for 2006. I explained that I'd seen the website, and he flat-out told me I was wrong and needed to come down and just buy the other color he had on-site). Either that, or they're utterly indifferent and downright rude.
I suspect there's such low-profit here that only the lowest level of care is paid to you. Which is incredible; I'm making a $20k purchase!
Toyota/Scion should cut their marketing-spending and give more dealer-incentives. I've had such frustration myself trying to buy a TC these past few weeks that I'm about to pick out another car from a dealer who can at least fake wanting to do business with me.
#34 of 114 Re: Dealer from Hell [dahl]
Jul 17, 2005 (2:37 am)
Yep...it's certainly NOT as they would have you believe huh? Here is the page from the main site with the "disclaimers" that say basically dealers can set whatever prices they want to BUT the customer still can't haggle...
#35 of 114 Re: Dealer from Hell [aeroluvr]
Jul 17, 2005 (7:29 am)
First, let me say that I am not a Scion representative at our dealership. From my understanding, the individual dealer does not HAVE to have the same pricing that Scion does on their website, however, the Dealer must have THEIR prices posted both in the showroom and on their individual website for vehicles, parts, accessories, rates, etc. So what may save you all some time is to check out the individual dealer's web site to get their pricing.
Hope this helps.
#36 of 114 Re: Dealer from Hell [toyotaken]
Jul 17, 2005 (7:47 am)
But that's my point - what value is "pure price" to me as a consumer? What I'm hearing is that I'm utterly unable to negotiate options that should be negotiable, and that in some instances the dealer can and will charge more. This isn't the Saturn model, and I suspect that part of the poor performance I'm experiencing from Scion salesmen has to do with working next to their Toyota peers - peers who likely have a higher profit-margin/sales "take" than their Scion peers. On the Saturn lot, everyone gets the same amount, and dealers on those Saturn lots give a very different experience than the reluctant Scion dealers on the Toyota lots.
#37 of 114 What is going on with scion dealers?????
Jul 18, 2005 (12:07 pm)
This has been the most difficult $22,000 I have ever spent. It is extremely frustrating that these dealers think they can get away with murder, and bold face lie to us. I also bought a Toyota Scion Tc and have encountered nothing but lies and deceit since day one. I am a 24 year old girl, luckily I had my father who can see right through the BS these car dealers like to dish out. I can only imagine what they would've tried to tell me, had I gone in by myself! I do agree that the incentives must be made better for the salesmen, though sad as it is thats the only way we as consumers will get better customer service. My dealer even told me he only makes a certain amount on scions and was hardly worth his effort. No wonder its been problem after problem, and lie after lie. Its the first Toyota I have ever bought, and this dealer has left such a bad taste in my mouth I will reconsider ever buying another one. The excitement of a new car was completely taken from me by this car dealer. If anyone lives in Scottsdale, Arizona and is looking for a Toyota dealer, DON'T go to Right Toyota!!!! I hope Toyota as a whole takes a step back and re-evaluates the way they train their salesmen to sell, or not sell, Scions. Its a great car overshadowed by the supposed " Haggle-Free" hassle of buying.
Jul 30, 2005 (9:40 am)
Just received my new tc yesterday!!! 2006 superwhite with side airbags. I have been visiting this forum since March and all your comments have been very helpful (stickguy, tonylexus, etc). My tc was supposed to get here in 20 - 25 days but one became available in 10 days. Once I was told they had a tc for me, making the final decision to buy was a bit scary, especially when reading the last few posts on this website. But I looked at the overall experiences all of you have had and the info I read from other tc forums. Overall what I heard was that owners love their tcs. Driving it for the first time yesterday, I can see why. As an older person, I don't look at the same features my 16 year old son does. The ride was smooth, quiet, very roomy inside despite its size from the outside, and a very secure feeling in the driver's seat. Much more secure than my Toyota Corolla feels to me. Will keep you informed on how it continues to do. 34 miles on it so far.
As for my buying experience...FANTASTIC! Dick Poe Toyota/Scion in El Paso gave me wonderful service, quick and friendly. The salesperson and I kept in touch through e-mails since March. Visited another Scion dealer who wanted $500 down to order, but this one asked for no money down. No pressure either. Even the finance part was surprising. I spent no more than 30 minutes in finance and they gave me several options for financing and I decided which one to take. I was more than pleased with the results. And, no pressure again.
Today begins Day 2 with my tc. Incidently, I looked at the Honda Civic, Honda Accord, CRV, Sonata, Toyota Corolla & Camry and some of the Nissan cars. For the money and all it comes with (ABS, sunroof, comfort, etc.) this is the one I liked best. By the way, I hadn't even heard of the tc and wasn't even interested in it, but my son kept telling me that he wanted one someday and so we test drove it one Saturday... (just for the fun of it). And now you know the rest of the story.
#39 of 114 tc order time
Jul 30, 2005 (10:11 pm)
Hello, I haven't seen a midwest post yet so here I go. I went shopping for the tc in mid june. The first dealership I went to Grossinger Scion in Lincolnwood, Il didn;t even have a tc to look at and just expected to be to buy one without even test driving it. So I then went to Evanston Scion and they did have one to drive, but it was automatic (I wanted a stick to try out) but at least I knew what it was like to drive one. So I ordered one in 5 speed blue with the air bags. They said it would take a few months to develiver and now it is almost august and the order isn't even filled yet. I that normal at this point?