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Hybrid Vehicles Lexus RX 400h Lexus RX 400h vs ?? Comparisons
69 messages, Last post on Apr 21, 2007 at 10:43 PM
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Replying to: gagrice (May 07, 2006 5:27 pm) The AMS mileage tests do not focus on city driving. The "Autobahn" is an important part of the tests and highways are also included. City driving is only one small part. Indeed, 23.2 mpg is pretty lousy. This is because of the way AMS tests vehicles. High-speed Autobahn rides, accelerations under full load etc. Lousy indeed, but please not that the 320CDI does even worse, because of the same reasons. A more simple, "idealized" European test (93/116/EG) gives the following results: Lexus: 29.4 mpg, Mercedes 25.0 mpg, again largely in favor of the Lexus. Taking all this in consideration it seems clear that the marathon test is useless. The people who performed the test have shown to be unreliable. Their results are contradicted by other tests. All this is not to say that the Mercedes ML320CDI would be a bad buy. At the moment it certainly is one of the best luxury SUVs around.
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Replying to: joebeatt (May 08, 2006 2:56 pm) I suppose if I had spent a ton of money on the RX400h to find it does not get the EPA rated mileage I would be upset with any test that made it look bad. First: the Autobild cross country marathon recorded a mileage for the RX400h of 27.69 MPG. That is better than the average owner on greenhybrid is getting which is only 25.0 MPG. Second: they averaged the two ML320 CDI vehicles in the contest at 31.05 MPG. I thought that a bit low considering the same engine in the E320 CDI has been tested many times in the high 30s & even low 40s out on the highway. Third: from your own report the journalist was fired by the publication. That is a lot better than many of our news organizations in this country. NY Times & CBS for examples. Would that not show at least a modicum of integrity? I notice you like the results that favor the RX400h. Is that unbiased on your part. If I bought the ML320 CDI it would not be for it's mileage. It would be for the diesel torque and ability to be used off-road with as much confidence & safety as on the highway. You cannot say that of the RH. Mercedes-Benz has been left red-faced and a German motoring journalist has been sacked following revelations that they conspired to doctor a crash-avoidance test to gain exposure on one of Germany's highest rating television programs. It would be nice to see your report in English so we could all decide if it is biased or honest.
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Replying to: gagrice (May 08, 2006 4:45 pm) I do not intend to buy the ML320CDI nor the RX400h, so I am not biased. Even if I would want to buy one, I would still not be biased. I am a physicist by profession. I don't care about opinions on mileage. The only thing that counts for me is measurements. One of the most important things in physics is that you must be sure that you can trust the person who has performed the measurements. Because of their history (Mercedes-Benz fraud, "test" a Prius at 32 mpg) I do not trust Auto Bild. So far I still do trust AMS. They seem to be one the most serious German car magazines. As far as I know they don't publish in English. Because of this Auto Bild fraud and the fact that the coast to coast marathon keeps on popping up everywhere as some kind of urban legend, I am very interested in comparative tests between de RX400h and the ML320CDI. I would welcome any link to any serious test. It's not that easy to find because most car magazines will put up the RX400h against the ML500
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Replying to: joebeatt (May 09, 2006 12:32 am) I did not see that test. I do remember all the fuss when Consumer Reports got 35 MPG on the Prius. The statement about mileage and the EPA. We have gone over that a lot here. The consensus is that Hybrids fare worse than non-hybrids. I consider the list of respondents on greenhybrid to be as good of a scientific accumulation of data as we have on hybrid mileage. On that site out of 608 Prius II owners only 5% are getting EPA combined mileage of 55 MPG. The overall average is 47.6 MPG. The difference with the RX400h is even greater. The average is 25.0 MPG on a vehicle that is supposed to get 30 MPG combined. If they caught MB and the journalist in a fraud once. Don't you think they would have caught them if they were cheating in a cross country test run? Do you believe that all the people involved in that venture were part of a conspiracy against Lexus? Your statement sounds like you do not believe the test was even run (Urban Legend). That would be fraud for sure. This poor method of EPA testing that has given the hybrids a false set of advertising parameters. Has also defrauded the tax payers with the "hybrid Tax Credit" which is based on mileage gains over non-hybrid like vehicles. I can tell you for a fact that my Passat TDI got better than EPA estimates from the time I drove it home. My GMC Hybrid PU is not even close to the EPA estimate. Just like the RX400h at 17% below EPA estimates. Being a scientist this kind of FRAUD has to be very difficult for you to swallow.
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Replying to: gagrice (May 09, 2006 5:53 am) http://www.autozeitung.de/index.php?page=3er-vergleichstest&action=detail&id=718- - - &tb=8¤t=2 Testverbrauch = Mileage according to their test EU verbrauch = Mileage according to measurements as defined by the European Union 7.2 l/100km = 32 mpg 4.3 l/100km = 55 mpg Please also note the "Abgas-Emissionen" (pollution measurements) "Fraud" (your words) difficult to swallow? Not at all. As long as the EPA procedure is well defined and reproducible, it's fine with me. It's then up to you what you want to do with it. I think you must be quite dumb not to understand that EPA figures and real life can be completely different. But if you want to get excited about it, go ahead, it's a free country. |
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Let's not turn this into a personal thing please! PF Flyer Host Automotive News & Views, Wagons, & Hybrid Vehicles The Mazda Club Chat is on tonight. The chat room opens at 8:45PM ET Hope to see YOU there! Check out the schedule |
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Could someone who has driven both the RX 400 and RX 350 please give me their opinion about any performance differences? I am definitely going to purchase one within the next month or so … and I like to drive hard sometimes. I’m curious about standing still acceleration and cruising acceleration. The price differential of $3000 or $4000 is significant, but I’m willing to pat it if there is a noticeable difference for the RX 400 versus RX 350. Thanks
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I intend to visit my dealer (hopefully this weekend) to test drive both cars. When I sat down to ask some simple questions about avaibilty and options... the dealer commented that the performance difference between the two was almost not noticable and that some people have commented that the RX 400h was noiser than the RX 350 under hard acceleration. I don't know if this is true since I get the impression the dealers are pushing the RX 350 over the RX 400h for some reason.
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Replying to: kris17 (Jun 08, 2006 5:30 am) I suspect that the RX350 probably has equalized the acceleration issue. No matter which model you decide on, I believe you will love the car. |
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Replying to: kris17 (Jun 08, 2006 5:30 am) That is strange if they have both vehicles in stock. I have had dealers say things like that when they don't have what I am looking for. I would go with the one you like driving best and can get down the closest to invoice. You should be able to deal on either one. No matter what they tell you sales are off this year on the RX. Wait till the end of the month and they are more apt to deal price wise. Don't be afraid to walk out on them. They won't let a customer go if they can help it. |
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