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Hybrid Vehicles Can hybrids be "performance" vehicles?
80 messages, Last post on Mar 12, 2009 at 6:08 PM
You are in the Hybrid Vehicles Forum. Your Host is pf_flyer
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"Anybody who thinks performance is defined primarily by "Fast", certainly suffers tunnel vision!" Ooooooh, THAT would certainly go over well in one of the GTO threads........ 
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But "performance" generally IS associated with "speed and handling" unless modified by using "mileage" as an adjective to look at mileage performance.
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Replying to: pf_flyer (May 06, 2005 10:25 am) Correct but what do I mean by performance? Low level of body roll Firm ride Sharp steering How it Corners RWD A musical growl with acceleration(like a BMW growl) NO GIZMOS that enhance passive driving like the Lexus VSC system, BMW's Active Frontal Steering, all automatic transmissions and cruise control. A performance car should be catered to active drivers not ones who want to feel like passengers! Oh and did I mention speed?
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Replying to: sinepman (May 06, 2005 8:20 am) Depends on your definition of flop I guess, but compared to the Prius sales it is a flop. I'm just saying that in order to sell in Prius numbers, a hybrid will have to scream "different!" rather than fade into the background.
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Replying to: mirth (May 06, 2005 11:51 am) |
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Best to agree upon the most basic performance parameters first before starting a debate. This lets us compare oranges to oranges. Taking Dewey's lead, I propose the following as a premise for more interesting discussion: Core Performance Characteristics 1. Precise steering with precise road feel. 2. Absolute road grip (i.e. no roll, lean, under, over steer) until pushed to envelope. 3. Precise braking. 4. Almost "endless" torque from 0MPH to 85MPH and any range in between. 5. Seemingly endless power range up to maximum rated speed. 6. Should reach FWY speed of 75MPH from 0MPH in 7 seconds or less. 7. Should reach passing speed of 75MPH anywhere from 15MPH to 35MPH in 3 seconds or less. 8. Can safely breeze through an unbanked 90-degree country lane turn at 25MPH or higher. 9. Performance on 3.5% grade should remain within 87% of spec. Limitations: 1. This is not a race car but a public-road vehicle that everyone can drive. 2. It does not matter what technology is put in place to achieve the above characteristics. 3. A car that meets and exceeds the 9 characteristics qualifies as "performance" grade. Discussion: Assume agreement over the 9 core characteristics and limitations above, then any car that can achieve the above characteristics will qualify. If someone can make a 18-wheeler steam powered rig that achieves all 9 characteristics, it qualifies as a performance public-road vehicle. So the technology does not matter. To answer a general question of whether a hybrid can be a performance vehicle, the answer is obviously a general yes, someone just has to want to make one. But if the focus is on specific models, then we need to focus on the specific car and not make general statement about a whole class to which these cars belong. For example, can Lexus and Highlander hybrids be considered "performance" cars? the specific answer, relevant to these cars, is obviously a tentative no. Reviewers all seem to agree these 2 vehicles can achieve #4 through #7. They seem to disagree about #1 through #3 and #9. As for #8, we have to wait for other reviews that test cornering or emergency maneuver capability. Common sense also says that tall vehicles, as they are designed today, cannot escape limitations imposed by physics. There is no way the 2006 R400h and the highlange hybrid can beat a sports sedan. May be in 2008?
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Replying to: cdptrap (May 06, 2005 1:12 pm) should be! I did not mention the importance of hp/torque/acceleration since that is very well covered by almost every ad you see! And no matter what marketing people may want people to think---a SUV is not a performance vehicle(Honda is even trying to promote a Odyssey Minivan as a performance vehicle). I would not even consider an upcoming hybird Porsche Cayenne as a performance vehicle! I can tell you right now that a small BMW 130i or 130d will be able to whip corners and make mincemeat out of a hybrid Porsche Cayenne. "There is no way the 2006 R400h and the highlange hybrid can beat a sports sedan. May be in 2008?" With 20/20 vision I know a 08 hybrid Rr00h will not beat a benchmark sports sedan. As technology improves the performance of an SUV, that same technology will have bigger impact in improving the performance of a sport sedan: As I said before it all boils down to physic: Heavier weight causes more friction for motion!
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Replying to: cdptrap (May 06, 2005 1:12 pm)
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| A hybird could be a performance car....just a boring one. | |
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Replying to: gagrice (May 06, 2005 4:50 pm)
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