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Hybrid Vehicles Can hybrids be "performance" vehicles?
80 messages, Last post on Mar 12, 2009 at 6:08 PM
You are in the Hybrid Vehicles Forum. Your Host is pf_flyer
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Replying to: mirth (May 06, 2005 7:56 am) |
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I'm puzzled by those who seem able to consider only one dimension of an issue at a time. In a simplistic view, performance and economy may seem contradictory, but everything involves compromise and every car purchase involves juggling priorities, consciously or not. To reduce transportation fuel consumption, we need vehicles that satisfy the buyer's needs and expectations for utility and performance while using less fuel. You accomplish that by providing vehicles of equal or better performance and utility that happen to be more efficient as well. 25 mpg may not seem extraordinary, but if the vehicle that it replaced only managed 20, it's a substantial improvement. The challenge is to provide that improvement at a price that is marketable. Since the parallel hybrid offers the potential to augment the IC engine's peak output as well as improve cycle efficiency, improved power AND fuel economy are possible if the amount of improvement in both are compromized. Granted, there will be increased mass, all other things being equal, and that brings additional design challenges, but they are not insurmountable. The Honda hybrid system, for example installs the electric motor in lieu of the flywheel with little consequence to space or mass while allowing a conventional clutch and manual transmission. Only the battery is problematic, but if you're not trying to make an EV out of your hybrid, it needn't be overly large to satisfy the objectives of energy recovery and intermittent peak output. So a performance hybrid is certainly a possibility if that is the design objective. Imagine, for instance, an S2000 like vehicle with the original 2.0L engine using the electric drive to augment not only peak power but low rpm torque as well (obviating the "need" for the 2.2L engine). Perhaps the batteries could be accommodated as tubular assemblies nestled in thickened structural door sills. The increased mass would be low and centered fore-aft and more than offset by the electric drive. Of course there would be some compromises (the presumably heavier flywheel comes to mind), but however it may be driven, it could conceivably provide similar or better performance AND better economy than the present S2000 driven similarly. That sounds like a performance hybrid to me.
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Replying to: sinepman (May 06, 2005 8:20 am) My point on the RX400h sales is speculative, based on the fact that many that were told they were going to have a long wait to get their RX400h, have already gotten them. Does that mean they brought the whole 12k presold RX400h's into the country in one big ship load? Or did many prospective buyers bail out when they realized that they could get the RX330 equally equipped for $8k-$10k less? We won't know until the sales numbers are posted. I doubt the RX400h will sell as many as the HAH. To get back on thread. I think that people that are interested in a good handling performance vehicle will not buy a hybrid. At least nothing that is on the market right now. I am waiting on the "R" class MB hybrid. That will be a good handling fast 6 passenger luxury vehicle.
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Replying to: gagrice (May 06, 2005 8:44 am) |
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| the Lexus is but the beginning of hybrids that offer equal or better performance with improved economy, albeit at a dear price. An early "performance hybrid", if there is such a thing as a "performance" SUV short of an M5. | |
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Replying to: daysailer (May 06, 2005 8:25 am) In fact---if a sport convertible with fuel economy is your goal--a very humble Miata sounds like a wonderful option. Miata can be just as fun to drive if not more than the many heavier and more expensive convertibles out there.(although a Miata will not be as fast) By the way pardon my typo on Post 40: I meant know not no! 
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I'm fluent in chat and message board typo!  And since it's Friday, have a great weekend!! |
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Replying to: dewey (May 06, 2005 9:42 am) Are the compromises of a "performance" hybrid worth the bother and cost? That's a different question and I don't consider the present S2000 affordable so that's academic anyway. At present, I don't consider any of the hybrids "worth" their price, but again, we're talking possibilities, not necessarily present reality.
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Replying to: daysailer (May 06, 2005 10:01 am) "can a hybrid be a performance vehicle" and my answer is yes. No disagreement, but there are better and more inexpensive ways of getting performance, even fuel efficient performance! |
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Did anyone see the latest Ad for Lexus RX400H. It states the following: YOU KNOW THOSE SUPERHEROES WHO ARE ALWAYS SAVING THE PLANET? DONT THEY USUALLY TRAVEL FAST? and below these words are the following: The World's First Performance Hybrid! This ad is just a lot of bunk! Who is so gullible enough to swallow this? Saving the Planet---Give me a break! As if driving a RX400H is equivalent to bicycling! Dont they travel fast----This is a muscle headed interpretation of performance. Anybody who thinks performance is defined primarily by "Fast", certainly is afflicted with a tunnel vision view of performance! |
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