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Hybrid Vehicles Hybrid Vehicles - Archived Discussions Can hybrids be "performance" vehicles? 
80 messages, Last post on Mar 12, 2009 at 6:08 PM
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Replying to: rorr (May 05, 2005 5:40 am) But not only are they flawed in terms of gas efficiency but they are also flawed in being a performance vehicle. As I mentioned previous a good performance car should have superb handling/agility. The cumbersome weight of hybrid is definitey a killer in terms of handling. Unless hybrid technology involves less weight---the best alternative for gas efficeint perfromance vehicles would be turbo-diesel, not hybrid! |
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Replying to: gagrice (May 05, 2005 9:52 am) there is still a long way to go in hybrid technology before we can call performance/hybrids "Green". |
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Replying to: larsb (May 05, 2005 10:02 am)
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Replying to: larsb (May 05, 2005 10:02 am) That is where we disagree. The vehicle does not do what it is expected to do. Give great performance AND good mileage. You have to drive like a grandma to get close to the actual EPA. Most people are not interested in hypermiling. They want to just jump in the car and go. The RX400 & HAH have the speed they expected, just not the mileage. I thought your 38% was interesting, that means 62% are NOT getting EPA. My calculations are that less than 13% are getting the EPA 32 MPG and 75% are getting less than if they had bought the Accord EX 4 cylinder for $10k less. The HAH is a sales flop and I believe the RX400h will also be less popular than Lexus expected. When they can buy the same vehicle with all the doodads for $10k less they are going to take another look and say NO WAY! They will probably get a better handling CUV without the added 500 pounds. Same goes for the HAH, buy the EX V6 and hop it up with a 6 speed manual as some have already done. When the automakers build a hybrid that does not sacrifice driveability to get good mileage they will have accomplished something. They should have spent the money perfecting the original 3 hybrids.
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At this time, I'm not sure what 'hybrid-performance' vehicles you are referring to? At this writing, there are approximately 3 hybrids whose PRIMARY mission seems to be maximizing economy (Insight, Prius, and HCH), 3 crossover SUV's (Ford Escape, the RX400h, and Highlander hybrid), a couple of trucks which are hybrid in name only, and one midsize sedan, the HAH. In NONE of these vehicles was 'handling' the performance trait either maintained or accentuated though 'hybridization'. In my mind, NONE of these vehicles even counts as a 'performance' hybrid. I think the only effort being made is to offer the same (perhaps slightly better) straight-line performance while offering somewhat better economy. Do they "fulfill the goal of gas efficiency"? I dunno. I imagine that will vary from owner to owner and you would have to find out what THEIR 'gas efficiency goal' was. Are current performance/hybrids "green". Depends on your definition of 'green' ; even the Insight release SOME pollutants. I would say the hybrid versions are at least "greenER". Is handling an integral part of performance? Absolutely; I agree 110% with you there. Are there simpler, lighter ways to gain hp which would not adversely impact handling? Yes, again. Much cheaper ways too. Are there ways to boost power output AND provide better gas mileage at the same time? Ummmmmmm, sounds like the job for a hybrid to me....
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Replying to: sinepman (May 05, 2005 11:09 am) But at what price? Is it worth the extra $$$$? I think it is a joke that the media refers to such SUVs as green vehicles I |
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Replying to: rorr (May 05, 2005 11:17 am) When I refer to hybrid performance I refer to what I read in the media. I dont know what media sources you use but every time I read about a hybrid accord I keep on seeing the words "performance vehicle". Even the upcoming Lexus GS460h is not my definition of a performance vehicle. Too cumbersome! But the media may define the GS460H quite differently! |
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Replying to: gagrice (May 05, 2005 11:12 am) No, here is the ONLY scenario in which "the vehicle does not do what it is expected to do": WHEN NONE OF THE VEHICLES ACHIEVE ANYWHERE NEAR EPA. That is the ONLY scenario when you can CORRECTLY state that "the vehicle does not do what it says it can do." Complaining about yourself receiving lower MPG when you clearly know that other people are getting better MPG than you are is similar to complaining about these things: 1. I bought a football, but can throw it only 40 yards, but my neighbor can throw it 60 yards. What's wrong with my football? 2. My son can hit a baseball 400 feet, but my nephew can only hit it 300 feet - must be a bad baseball. 3. Like going to the shooting range with a nice, expensive shotgun and complaining because the guy next to you has a cheaper gun but he hit more skeets !!! It's NOT THE TECHNOLOGY that is broken. It's the drivers not using the vehicle to it's max potential due to: 1. short trips in unwarmed engines 2. break-in period not finished (more engine friction) 3. bad habits like accelerating too hard when not really necessary 4. not using the instrumentation in the vehicle to maximize the mpg 5. USERS LEARNING HOW TO DRIVE FOR MAX MPG That last one is the key thing. My first tank was 38.4 in my HCH because I did not know how to drive it for max mpg. Now I DO know those things, and my 52.4 MPG over my last six tanks shows that. Like I correctly said back in December when Gary was pointing out how few Accord Hybrid drivers were getting close to EPA: "Give the drivers a few months on the road, with warmer temps, driver education, and broken in engines, and the results will improve." I was correct about the HAH and I will again be correct about the RX400H. They WITHOUT A DOUBT will improve. Just watch. 
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Replying to: larsb (May 05, 2005 11:44 am) |
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