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Hybrid Vehicles Can hybrids be "performance" vehicles?
80 messages, Last post on Mar 12, 2009 at 6:08 PM
You are in the Hybrid Vehicles Forum. Your Host is pf_flyer
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Replying to: daysailer (May 04, 2005 12:17 pm) I'd agree that at the moment, price is a big factor. My personal opinion is that the premium you pay for the current hybrid offerings (vs the non-hybrid version of the same vehicle) is simply too high a cost. I can imagine what the first hybrid "sport" offerings are going to try and pry out of my wallet!  That being said, time SHOULD bring the cost of all this down. And maybe it's just a matter of perspective too. Wouldn't a race between evenly matched hybrid vehicles have just as much "racing" in it as a race between evenly matched NASCAR vehicles? Certainly would be less raw power involved, and the vehicles couldn't compete with each other, but then again, a great high school football game is still a great game even though the worst NFL team would crush either squad involved! |
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....as far as I know, EVERY hybrid currently on the market uses a CVT. Personally, any 'performance' car I buy will have 3 pedals. OTOH.......consider this for street performance cars: the new Mustang GT has 300hp, the new GTO has 400hp. But what % of the time does the car actually DELIVER this much power? Very little. So, with a hybrid, the gas engine could deliver somewhat less power (better for economy) for the majority of the time that the engine is just loafing, yet be able to offer short bursts of high performance through the hybrid powertrain.
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Replying to: benderofbows (May 04, 2005 12:25 pm) |
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Replying to: rorr (May 04, 2005 12:54 pm) |
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Son...of...a...gun. I was wrong and you are absolutely correct. I knew the Prius was only available CVT and that the HCH/Insight were available CVT; and made the giant assumption that they were ONLY available as CVT.
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Replying to: rorr (May 04, 2005 2:15 pm) 
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So why is it whenever you hear about a new and upcoming hybrid the words performance is used as much as gas savings? I guess it is all about marketing! Combine the following two points below together and Toyota/Honda begin to see $$$$ signs: 1)Higher profit margins for performance hybrids than what can be earned on a Prius/Civic 2) The Horsepower addiction of North Americans! If you add the two points above together is it any wonder that Toyota/Honda will market their performance/hybrids as if it can be driven like a NASCAR car and consume gas like a Insight? That as most forum members know is a load of bunk Everytime I read a review about the Hybrid Accord or the hybrid SUVs from Toyota there seems to be a consistent conclusion. If you drive the performance hybrid at a gradual pace like your Great-Aunt Esther would, then you may get sensational gas mileage. Otherwise forget it! So back to my question: Why bother buying a performance hybrid??  . |
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Replying to: dewey (May 04, 2005 5:39 pm) Your first question was why is it that one hears about performance as much as economy in reference to new hybrids? That one's easy to answer: because new hybrids are NOT all about maximizing economy; they are about meeting the performance expectations of Americans AND providing somewhat better economy. Why is this? Because a vehicle with an extremely heavy emphasis on economy in lieu of economy mixed w/ performance sells poorly in the US. Most American's image (rightly or wrongly) of 'hybrids' is some dinky little tin can puttering along in the slow lane driven by some eco-dweed w/ a 'Save the Whales' bumper sticker. This is an image that the automakers are anxious to overcome (obviously); therefore, they will manufacture vehicles which are still capable of good performance and/or still loaded to the gills with all the creature comforts of home AND which are capable of somewhat better mileage than a non-hybrid version of the same vehicle. Your second question is "Why bother buying a performance hybrid??" Not sure how to answer that since MY idea of a 'performance' hybrid is likely different from yours. In my view, there is currently no such thing as a 'performance' hybrid on the market (ie. a vehicle with NO expectation of increased economy but an increase in performance ONLY).
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Replying to: dewey (May 04, 2005 5:39 pm) I agree, why bother. Unless the added performance is a big plus for you. The RX400h & HAH are not doing real great on the mileage expected. I think if a person researched the hybrids before buying they would know that the mileage claims are not possible if you drive the car as performance cars are designed to be driven. If you want a fast Accord you would be way ahead of the game getting a V6 and beefing it up. Then you don't have all the added weight and complexity to cause you grief 5 years down the road. The only motive I see is feeling green, while you continue to fill OPEC bank accounts.
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quote Gagrice-"The RX400h & HAH are not doing real great on the mileage expected."-end quote Careful there.......that statement WAS TRUE a couple of months ago, but right now, with warmer weather, break-in time, and user education, those numbers are improving. One driver got 48.1 MPG on a hwy trip in an HAH, and over at our favorite unmentionable site for hybrid info, about 38% of the HAH drivers are reporting EPA or better, with that number getting higher day by day. Another driver reported 38 MPG for a hwy trip in his RX400h. So it's NOT the technology that is the problem - it's the drivers and their particular circumstances that are dictating the MPG received. Another RX400h owner: "Well I've had my 400h for two weeks now and have already taken a decent road trip from SF to Oregon and I'm averaging between 26-27 on every tank." So getting that much from a "performance" 4500 pound crossover SUV is pretty darn good. |
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