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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread - READ ONLY

12297 messages,  Last post on Apr 13, 2007 at 12:55 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum.

What is this discussion about? Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Subaru Legacy, Saturn Aura, Sedan

Messages Page 919 of 1231

#9173 of 12297 Re: IIHS Top Safety Picks [kdshapiro] by alpha01

Nov 21, 2006 (7:45 am)

Replying to: kdshapiro (Nov 21, 2006 6:32 am)
I do not at all agree with the new scoring system. I thought the 'Gold' and 'Silver' awards were well done, and I'm sorry, as I don't really take issue with a vehicle that achieves an 'Acceptable' in Head Restraint rating, as Rear crashes are RARELY as severely debilitating or fatal as Frontal/Offset or Side impacts.
 
Typically, I'm a fan of the IIHS and its testing. However, this list is WAY TOO restrictive. In my book, if you score GOOD for FRONTAL, GOOD for SIDE, and either ACCEPTABLE OR GOOD FOR REAR, thats should do it.
 
I'll copy the list as presented in the PR, for easy reference:
 
WINNERS
 
Large car
Audi A6 manufactured in Dec. 2006 and later
 
Midsize cars
Audi A4
Saab 9-3
Subaru Legacy equipped with optional electronic stability control
 
Minivans
Hyundai Entourage
Kia Sedona
 
Luxury SUVs
Mercedes M class
Volvo XC90
 
Midsize SUVs
Acura RDX
Honda Pilot
Subaru B9 Tribeca
 
Small SUVs
Honda CR-V
Subaru Forester equipped with optional electronic stability control
 

ALSO-RANS
Rear protection isn't GOOD (GOOD for FRONTAL and SIDE, ESC available/standard)
 
These vehicles earned good ratings in front and side crash tests. They have electronic stability control, standard or optional. They would have won 2007 TOP SAFETY PICK awards if their seat/head restraints also had earned good ratings. Instead rear crash protection is rated acceptable, marginal, or poor (Honda reports that the seat/head restraints in the only Civic model with electronic stability control wouldn’t be rated good).
 
Acceptable rear protection
Audi A3
BMW 3-series 4dr
Lexus IS 250/350
 
Marginal rear protection
Acura TL
Honda Odyssey
Lexus ES 350
Lexus GS 350
Toyota Camry
Toyota FJ Cruiser
Toyota Prius
Toyota RAV4
 
Poor rear protection
Honda Accord 4dr
Infiniti M35
Nissan Quest
Toyota Avalon
Toyota Sienna
 
~alpha

#9174 of 12297 Re: Honeymoon ended with the new Sonata... [thegraduate] by backy

Nov 21, 2006 (8:22 am)

Replying to: thegraduate (Nov 20, 2006 9:36 pm)
If the Limited V6 Sonata carried the same pricetag as an EX V6 Accord or an SE-V6 Camry, would the Sonata get many buyers?
 
No, because Honda and Toyota have years of Brand Equity built up which allows them to charge more for their cars than other automakers.
 
And the Sonata Limited doesn't cost the same as an Accord EX V6 or Camry XLE V6 (not really comparable to the SE V6, IMO). It costs the same in real-world prices as an Accord or Camry I4.

#9175 of 12297 Re: Honeymoon ended with the new Sonata... [jimmy81] by backy

Nov 21, 2006 (8:25 am)

Replying to: jimmy81 (Nov 20, 2006 9:47 pm)
The Azera SE is about $21k in real-world pricing in my town; the Limited under $24k. I seriously doubt I could get an Accord EX V6 for anywhere near $21k--maybe near $24k if all the planets are lined up.

#9176 of 12297 Re: ... [captain2] by chrisford

Nov 21, 2006 (8:34 am)

Replying to: captain2 (Nov 20, 2006 9:56 pm)
In my mind - Fusions, 6s, pre 2006 Sonatas, Malibus, G6s, Sebrings etc. all have problems under the hoods, 4 cylinder or 6 cylinder
 
What problem under the hood if i may ask kind sir does the Fusion 4 and V6 have? It's easy to make such a general statement without regards for truth. The Duratecs are very reliable engines and lots of folks on this forum can attest to that. Why do you ToyHon zealots insist on spreading false information to validate your purchase decision. So you got an overpriced, reliable but boring family car, great! But don't insult the intelligence of people like myself and others by make such a subjective comment disguised as facts.
 
I think the ToyHon zealots will not buy any other mid-size brand even if came with everything they wanted and more. So get over it and stop trying to justify your inability see anything beyond you nose.
 
I was all set on Sonata or Fusion but now that the Aura is here I may have to rethink my decision. And, if tomorrow something else shows up on the horizon that spikes my interest then I may also take that into consideration.
 
The point I am making is you don't have to follow zealots blindly base on past and outdated information or mis-information.

#9177 of 12297 Re: Honeymoon ended with the new Sonata... [meateater] by w9cw

Nov 21, 2006 (8:35 am)

Replying to: meateater (Nov 21, 2006 7:11 am)
meateater wrote: "Sounds like jimmy81 wanted the car he felt better buying/owning - the Accord, and not what he thought the neighbors thought. I too agree the Accord is the better car."
 
I think you missed my point. I didn't care what my neighbors thought, and still don't. I don't buy anything for my neighbors' gratification or satisfaction - only my own.

#9178 of 12297 Re: ... [chrisford] by louiswei

Nov 21, 2006 (8:44 am)

Replying to: chrisford (Nov 21, 2006 8:34 am)
I think the ToyHon zealots will not buy any other mid-size brand even if came with everything they wanted and more.
 
Why would I not buy a car that has:
 
- The interior quality on par or better than the Honda Accord
- The reliability that rivals the Toyota Camry
- A 4 cylinder engine that outperform the Accord 4c or
- A 6 cylinder engine that outperform Toyota's 2GR-FE
- The exterior that matches my personal preference
 
and all that with a sticker comes about two to three grand lower than the Camcord's?
 
Can you point me to such a car currently on the market? I don't think so. By the way, I don't think the Fusion or Sonata fits all the 5 criteria I listed above.

#9179 of 12297 Re: Honeymoon ended with the new Sonata... [captain2] by cxc

Nov 21, 2006 (9:07 am)

Replying to: captain2 (Nov 20, 2006 9:32 pm)
the Toyota 2GR and Nissan VQ are the best V6s currently available - the 2GR easily the most technologically advanced
 
Unfortunately, the truth is that Toyota 2GR is two generations behind BMW V6.
 
BMW V6 has CVVT (continuously variable timing on both intake and exhaust camshafts along with continuously variable intake valve lift) while Toyota 2GR is VVT (both intake and exhaust).
 
BMW V6 has VANOS (Variable Nockenwellen Steuerung) that further enhances both power and efficiency across the engine speed range while Toyota 2GR does not.
 
The end result is that BMW 3L v6 achieves its max torque 220 ft-lbs only 2750 rpm while Toyota 2GR’s max torque 248 ft-lbs 4700 rpm. The turbo charged BMW 3L v6 achieves its max torque 300 ft-lbs 1400 rpm. Do you feel how much more twist force BMW V6 generates without screaming?
 
Hyundai 3.3L V6 engine has CVVT, which achieves its max torque 226 ft-lbs 3500 rpm. This engine is probably one generation behind BMW V6. Hyundai learnt a lot from MB by giving MB 10% of Hyundai.

#9180 of 12297 Re: Honeymoon ended with the new Sonata... [cxc] by louiswei

Nov 21, 2006 (9:14 am)

Replying to: cxc (Nov 21, 2006 9:07 am)
Unfortunately, the truth is that Toyota 2GR is two generations behind BMW V6.
 
Unfortunately your whole post is just a load of bogus because BMW does NOT have and NEVER has a V6 engine.
 
This just shows that googling without basic knowledge is very very dangerous.

#9181 of 12297 Re: ... [louiswei] by imidazol97

Nov 21, 2006 (9:15 am)

Replying to: louiswei (Nov 21, 2006 8:44 am)
>Why would I not buy a car that has:
 
To show you have herd mentality and let others pick your choices for you?????
 
To show you don't understand financial responsibility????
 
To show you aren't gullible to the advertising image put out by certain companies????
 
To show you'll buy something that doesn't look as good just because????
 
 

 
Good post.

#9182 of 12297 Re: Honeymoon ended with the new Sonata... [backy] by meateater

Nov 21, 2006 (9:16 am)

Replying to: backy (Nov 21, 2006 8:25 am)
I think the Hyundai give-away pricing spooks people.

Messages Page 919 of 1231

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