Last post on Apr 13, 2007 at 12:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Subaru Legacy, Saturn Aura, Sedan
#6686 of 12297 Re: 4 cylinder sedans [growwise]
Sep 04, 2006 (7:26 pm)
"The way I see it....One year from now, buyers would have a good choice with
1. 2007 Nissan Altima
2. 2007 Toyota Camry
3. 2008 Honda Accord (hopefully fall 07)
4. 2007 Saturn Aura
5. 2007 Chrysler Sebring
6. 2008 Subaru Legacy??
7. 2008 Chevy Malibu??
8. 2007 VW Passat
Did I miss out on any?
Anyways, its a good thing as I would be in the market in a year or two...
I would say you missed.. Fusion/Milan G6, 6, Sonata..???
#6687 of 12297 Re: EPA classification [joe97]
Sep 04, 2006 (7:26 pm)
"There maybe some cross-shopping but the generally consensus: Jetta competes with Elantra, and other compact in the class. Plus, I tend to think most consumers looking for an economy cars generally are on a budget"
Nope, that's not the general consensus. The Jetta does not compete with the Elantra. People tend not to cross shop $14K cars with $22-28K cars. You're right, consumers looking for an economy car are on a budget. That leaves out the Jetta, right?
Please do some more research on the Jetta. I think you'll come to a different conclusion if you do so.
#6688 of 12297 Re: Jetta [scape2]
Sep 04, 2006 (7:44 pm)
"I would call it an upscale small car maybe? midecono?"
what about a poor man's A3/A4/S40/9-3/TSX?
#6689 of 12297 Re: EPA classification [venus537]
Sep 04, 2006 (7:50 pm)
I would concur. I don't believe the Jetta competes with the Elantra, as most buyers who are considering an Elantra wouldn't even look at the Jetta, and vice versa. I bought a 2006 Elantra GLS sedan last December, and never considered a Jetta, and this is from a person who's driven primarily European cars since 1968. Frankly, the exterior and interior fit and finish of the Elantra at $13,700 delivered, including tax, title, and license, is the equal to a number of past new European cars I've purchased - and, those were not British, French, or Italian in origin! After 9 months of ownership, not one single glitch anywhere. I must say I've been most plesantly surprised.
In my case, buying the Elantra was not a function of budget, or lack thereof, but rather discovering the most bang for the buck. For example, the fit and finish on the Elantra (on a direct A/B comparison on an adjacent dealer's lot) was superior to a 2005 Civic LX. After over 40 years of driving, I've learned that the only person I need to impress is myself.
#6690 of 12297 Re: EPA classification [venus537]
Sep 04, 2006 (7:54 pm)
For 28K, I can get a much bigger car, for more power and amenities.
Jetta vs. midsize I don't buy at all; but Jetta vs TSX, let's say, I'll give you.
#6691 of 12297 Re: EPA classification [joe97]
Sep 04, 2006 (8:02 pm)
"For 28K, I can get a much bigger car, much more power, much more amenities"
So much for doing some research.
Yes, for $28K you can get a much bigger car. As for your two other points, umm... you'll know the error of your ways with some research.
#6692 of 12297 Re: EPA classification [venus537]
Sep 04, 2006 (8:11 pm)
I've done my research, when I was shopping for a car about a year ago.
Yes, I test drove the Jetta then; and by the way, I thought it was a good car overall. It just didn't meet my needs - among other shortfalls, the backseat was way too tight for my family.
#6693 of 12297 Re: EPA classification [joe97]
Sep 04, 2006 (8:16 pm)
Probably not the right car for someone with a family.
#6694 of 12297 Re: EPA classification [zzzoom6]
Sep 04, 2006 (9:03 pm)
Well, let's see. The EPA has already figured out how to define what a mid-sized sedan is. They do it by interior volume. I think that should be the primary criterion. I really don't care if a car is 175" long or 190" long, as long as it has a roomy interior. Actually, I do care. I prefer the shorter car for ease in parking and garaging.
But let's look at the other criteria you mentioned:
2. quality of interior, engines, suspension, and choices of options needing to be better than compacts
Quality of interior: have you seen the interior of the 2007 Elantra, even photos of it? It puts many higher-priced cars to shame, including Hyundai's own Sonata. According to C/D, the interior of the 2007 Elantra will "frighten" its Japanese competitors. It offers perforated/heated leather seating, tilt/telescope steering with cruise and audio controls on the wheel, tasteful blue gauges, metallic trim, etc.
Engines: I suppose there could be a rule that a "mid-sized sedan" has to offer an engine with more than 4 cylinders. But since every one of the mid-sized sedans mentioned at the top of the discussion is offered with a 4-cylinder engine, and those are generally the best sellers, I am not sure why we'd want to make that limitation.
Suspension: Not sure what you mean by that. Is a fully-independent suspension with front and rear rollbars good enough to qualify? Some compacts like the Corolla have a beam rear suspension, but many small cars have sophisticated suspensions, so I don't think that is a good criterion.
Choice of options: Ah, but which options? Nav? Several mid-sized sedans don't offer nav in all markets. Bluetooth? Ditto. (Anyway, you can get Bluetooth on some smaller cars.) Eight airbags? Only a few mid-sized family sedans offer those. Leather interior? Some compacts offer that too. How about standard ABS and stability control in all models? But that would eliminate almost ALL the mid-sized cars.
3. engine choices
Already covered in #2.
4. premium options like leather, nav, sat radio (this piece of criteria I'm not sure about...just cuz a car doesn't offer nav shouldn't automatically eliminate it f/ this class...just throwing it out there)
Again, already covered in #2. Good thing not having nav doesn't eliminate a car, because that would eliminate cars like the Fusion, Malibu, and Sonata. How about OnStar? Maybe every mid-sized car should have that safety and convenience feature (the General would like that rule).
5. price (w/in a range of other midsize cars) - also not sure about this one either since there are already a wide range of prices in cars that we all agree with
You are right, there's a wide range of prices. Should we eliminate cars like the Fusion, Malibu, Optima, and Sonata because they can be had for under $16k with rebates and some discounting? If it helps, a loaded 2007 Elantra Limited will be close to $19k, maybe even $20k. (The top-of-the-line 2006 Elantra tops $18k, and prices and equipment levels are going up.)
So maybe the EPA has the right idea after all.
#6695 of 12297 Re: EPA classification [joe97]
Sep 04, 2006 (10:14 pm)
I can't fall a sleep.
It occurred to me that you might be able to get an Impala SS or a hemi powered Charger for $28k. Well I'm sticking to my guns that there's not a $28k car that has more amenities than a $28K Jetta.