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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread - READ ONLY

12297 messages,  Last post on Apr 13, 2007 at 12:55 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum.

What is this discussion about? Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Subaru Legacy, Saturn Aura, Sedan

Messages Page 602 of 1230

#6010 of 12297 Re: I'm willing to bet.. [scape2] by mfletou1

Aug 09, 2006 (9:43 am)

Replying to: scape2 (Aug 08, 2006 2:19 pm)
Sure, I'd act the same...I DID act the same. You're talking to a guy who has never owned anything but GM. I bought a 1997 Chevrolet Malibu new, traded it for a new 2001 Oldsmobile Alero, trading that for a new 2002 Oldsmobile Intrigue, bought my wife a certified 2000 Alero Coupe, which we traded for a new 2004 Chevrolet Malibu Maxx.
 
In each instance, I was warned by various people about problems associated for those cars. I figured they were isolated.
 
I was wrong. They weren't isolated, and every single one of those cars with the exception of my first Malibu has or had major issues. I've looked at what is going on with the Camry and realized that for the volume of car, the actual number of complaints is not as high as it was for the cars I bought.
 
Anyway, the amount of problems with my group of GM vehicles was staggering. Sure, it COULD be that I'm unlucky, but in reality I doubt that's the case. Virtually every single Intrigue owner on edmunds reported problems with their ISS, sure enough, my '02 had it replaced 3 times in 45k. Most Malibu Maxx owners have complained about the brakes, sure enough, my car is on its 3rd set of rotors...at 21k (and after being resurfaced 5 times).
 
So, I'm willing to put a little more stock in Toyota and Honda at this point. If my car has its own set of problems, I won't hesitate to report them.
 
Frankly, I probably should have given up on GM before I did...my wife's Alero Couple lost its steering system at 21k miles, but it was just out of warranty. Entire unit needed to replaced. GM took zero responsibilty and ended up offering us $300 off of the $2200 price to have it fixed. What a way to build loyalty. Finally, a few months ago, I was driving down the highway at 70 mph on my Intrigue when it totally died. Just flat out went dead--steering, power, everything. I managed to get it to the side of the road without getting killed, and it restarted. Brought it to the dealer--they did $1800 worth of warranty work, then took it for a spin--and it died on them. They did another $1100 in warranty work and proclaimed it fixed. I took it home and the ISS acted up again.
 
Then I found out we're having a baby. That was it for me. Welcome to Toyota. I can't risk it or deal with it anymore.

#6011 of 12297 Re: I'm willing to bet.. [mfletou1] by dieselone

Aug 09, 2006 (11:54 am)

Replying to: mfletou1 (Aug 09, 2006 9:43 am)
I'm with you. I know lots and lots of people with GM vehicles and the only people I hear from that say they don't have trouble with them are here on these boards.
 
Including myself, I personally know 8 people with a GM 1/2 ton vehicle with GM's POS 4l60e transmission. Out of the 8, 4 have required a rebuild before 70k miles.
 
Oh, the ISS, you'd think GM would have gotten something as simple as a steering shaft correct, but that damn thing seems to be a problem in everything from an Impala to Suburban.

#6012 of 12297 Re: Some CR real world data [kdhspyder] by dieselone

Aug 09, 2006 (11:57 am)

Replying to: kdhspyder (Aug 08, 2006 4:13 pm)
That is a very very important consideration that you bring up. Highway driving doesn't have a lot of variability to it other than speed and weather.
 
True, but weather i.e. the wind, at least here in Kansas is always a factor. A 20-30mph south wind is common in these parts, which in my Suburban means my fuel economy is either 14mpg or 20mpg depending if I'm going with or against the wind.

#6013 of 12297 Re: About economics of hybrids [jeffyscott] by wvgasguy

Aug 09, 2006 (12:42 pm)

Replying to: jeffyscott (Aug 09, 2006 5:17 am)
You can't go out and buy the $20,000 version and get a hybrid for an extra $1000-1500.
 
True, but if you look at the overall design of the Camry hybrid you'll see it's not just an add on option. It's an integral design that just happens to have a similar body style as a standard ICE version.
 
Yes Camry does have a $20,000 (cash price) stripped Camry so in that sense you can't get a TCH for $20,000 + say $3000 for the hybrid system. However there does seem to be a lot of the <$26,000 models around and if purchased soon they would be $23,400 after the tax cred. Comare that to a stripped Camry and it's like getting the base camry and only paying $3000 extra for the hybrid. However it's only as close to stripped as you can get because the extras (traction control / skid control / 440w stereo and keyless start are all standard and worth about $2000). I could live without the keyless option but even if I wanted a stripped Camry I would still want those other features and at that point there really is not much difference. Yes, my case was different because I essentially got my $30,589 LOADED TCH for less than $24,000 after tax credits and not everybody has that opportunity. I consider this a bargan as it's only $6000 more than my daughters Corrola S and $5000 more than my son's Scion TC, with niether of them having leather, skid control, 440w stereo, keyless start,etc .

#6014 of 12297 Re: About economics of hybrids [jeffyscott] by thegraduate

Aug 09, 2006 (1:15 pm)

Replying to: jeffyscott (Aug 09, 2006 5:17 am)
You can't go out and buy the $20,000 version and get a hybrid for an extra $1000-1500.
  
You can in the Honda Civic. Compared with a top of the line Civic EX with Navi 5AT that costs $20,760, a Civic Hybrid is $22,150; and adding Navi makes the car $23,650.
 
You can do it, but you'll sacrifice navigation to meet that $1,500 price difference.

#6015 of 12297 Re: I'm willing to bet.. [mfletou1] by lahiri

Aug 09, 2006 (1:30 pm)

Replying to: mfletou1 (Aug 09, 2006 9:43 am)
I had similar experiences with GM customer service. In my case, GM wanted me to trade in my nearly new vehicle for another new GM vehicle saying that they would offer me some "loyalty" discounts - but those discounts were peanuts compared to the depreciation. So, I also dumped my Blazer for a CR-V

#6016 of 12297 Right... by mfletou1

Aug 09, 2006 (2:30 pm)

I just sort of laugh at things---how can I be biased against GM when I've bought all these cars? But it is what it is. The quality is just not there---I'm not sure its design problems, I think its execution. The style and designs of many GM vehicles are really improved and are now at or not far off the pace. But the long term quality (or even midterm quality) is just not there, and part of that is just the type of materials used. I mean, I actually really do like our Maxx for its versatility, but the difference in interior quality and materials between that and my Camry is HUGE. I mean, its not close. Not even in the same ballpark.

#6017 of 12297 JDPower Most Dependable Midsize Car - Buick Century by cxc

Aug 09, 2006 (5:44 pm)

Surprise! The JD Power most dependable midsize car is Buick Century, not Camry, and not Accord. In fact, Camry and Accord did not even win runners-up. The runners-ups are Buick Regal and Mercury Sable. The past performance has no guarantee for the future. Some people will examine this result like lawyers and politicians; they could not help trying to discredit it.

#6018 of 12297 Re: I'm willing to bet.. [backy] by elroy5

Aug 09, 2006 (5:47 pm)

Replying to: backy (Aug 09, 2006 6:16 am)
Not true:
  
http://www.carcomplaints.com/Honda/Accord/2003/recalls.shtml
  
Also if you do a Google search on "2003 Accord transmission problems" you will see links to discussion groups that focus on transmission problems in the current-gen Accord
 
Backy, did you read my entire post? I did mention the recall on 03 model Accords transmissions. That is all your link said. The recall fix has obviously worked. There was one guy on honda-tech.com who had transmission problems. This idiot would rev his engine in neutral, then drop it in Drive. He deserves all the transmission problems he gets. Turns out he was trying to destroy the auto trans, so he could convince his parents to let him do a manual tranny swap on the car they bought for him. It's pretty amazing how spoiled some rich kids can be.
 
By the way, I did Google 2003 Accord transmission problems. Didn't find very much. Just the same information on the recalls.

#6019 of 12297 Re: JDPower Most Dependable Midsize Car - Buick Century [cxc] by elroy5

Aug 09, 2006 (5:56 pm)

Replying to: cxc (Aug 09, 2006 5:44 pm)
Surprise! The JD Power most dependable midsize car is Buick Century, not Camry, and not Accord.
 
That's no surprise. JD Power is a joke. They make it a point to give awards to cars that can't win awards from anyone else.

Messages Page 602 of 1230

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