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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread - READ ONLY

12297 messages,  Last post on Apr 13, 2007 at 12:55 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum.

What is this discussion about? Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Subaru Legacy, Saturn Aura, Sedan

Messages Page 141 of 1231

#1394 of 12297 Well... by maxamillion1

Feb 27, 2006 (4:57 pm)

the problem with that theory is this...
 
Some people have had bad experiences with GM, Ford, VW and other companies in the past. True, some have had bad experiences with Honda and Toyota as well...but for years, particularly during the 1970's and 1980's, folks got so disgusted with GM and Ford that they turned to Honda, Nissan and Toyota and have not looked back.It will be TOUGH for GM and Ford in particular to gain those customers back.
 
My mother, for example used to drive a Chevy Vega way before my birth as well as a Ford Escort. The Escort was her last "domestic" car because she got rid of it for a Civic back in 1983. The Civic never gave her a problem..so she stuck with Honda...eventually buying a 1984 Accord, 1992 Accord, 1995 Passport and 2003 Honda Odyssey. She is in the market again for a new car and guess what car she is going to get? Another Honda..rather it be the Pilot, Accord or another Odyssey.It's hard to break owner loyalty if a certain brand has been good to you. My mother is only a simple example of WHY Hondas, Toyotas and to an extent Nissans sell so well.GM and Ford are going to have a tough time breaking into these segments because for years all folks have recommended were Hondas, Toyotas and Nissans and for good reason..because they have been good cars.
 
The simple difference between where GM was in the 1970s and 80s compared to how Toyota, Honda and Nissan are now is the fact that these companies keep IMPROVING upon their cars. Back in the 1970s and 80s, GM and Ford along with Chrysler allowed the Japanese to take over the market.
 
You won't see that happening with Toyota or Honda.
 
Further, GM's pricing may be coming down now...but before the sticker slashing starting taking place the cars were too expensive for what they were. Sure rebates and other incentives were available, but consumers were turned off by the pricing.
 
Basically GM and Ford have to FIRST..get people into their showrooms to look at their products. If they can't at least get NEW people who haven't always brought their products they basically fail at gaining new consumers.
 
For example..Hyundai is doing an excellent job right now of getting new people into their showrooms because the Sonata offers so much for so little. The Fusion is a pretty good car and is better in many ways than the current Camry or Accord. But that won't last long...the new Camry hits lots this week..and before long their will be a new Altima and in a year and a half a new Accord.
 
See what I'm getting at? True, the domestics have improved steadily, but once they do improve, its time for other cars in the segment to get redesigns as well.
 
True, there will be those who buy nothing but GM and buy nothing but Ford..but what GM and Ford has to work on is getting those who buy imports into their dealerships..and those first time buyers to buy their products.
 
If they can do that..THEN Honda, Toyota and Nissan have something to worry about.
 
And on the same token..its gonna be TOUGH for Toyota, Nissan and Honda to break into the full-size truck market because GM and Ford in particular have always made good trucks.

#1395 of 12297 Re: Fully loaded Accord v. Fully loaded Camry [jrock65] by jaxs1

Feb 27, 2006 (6:37 pm)

Replying to: jrock65 (Feb 27, 2006 8:39 am)
In reality, the difference will not be only $1300 since the Accord can be had very heavily discounted after being on sale for 4 years and the Camry isn't even available yet and will sell for near MSRP for at least a little while.
 
Compare street prices not sticker prices.

#1396 of 12297 Re: Fully loaded Accord v. Fully loaded Camry [jaxs1] by thegraduate

Feb 27, 2006 (7:03 pm)

Replying to: jaxs1 (Feb 27, 2006 6:37 pm)
True. My 2006 EX Accord was had for $22k and change. It stickers near $23,800, I think.

#1397 of 12297 Re: Fact of the matter is [backy] by goodegg

Feb 27, 2006 (8:59 pm)

Replying to: backy (Feb 27, 2006 4:44 pm)
I think Honda and Toyota are conceding a good share of the lower end of this sector to Hyundai. The gentrification of the CamCord has raised their price tags, but their competition for the EXV6 and SE trims is tamer than that on the lesser trims. Unless CamCords start lowering prices Hyundai will buy more and more share with their pricing. HonToy's gotta see that!
 
But who knows? With the boomers retiring a new segment could arise that starts a whole new 'war', like mini's or crossovers.

#1398 of 12297 Re: Fully loaded Accord v. Fully loaded Camry [jaxs1] by jrock65

Feb 27, 2006 (9:44 pm)

Replying to: jaxs1 (Feb 27, 2006 6:37 pm)
"Compare street prices not sticker prices."
 
Actually, I'll compare what I want. If you want to compare street prices, then be my guest.
 
A street price comparison is much more relevant to someone getting the car right now, obviously. An MSRP comparison is more relevant as a general tool to measure a car's value over time.
 
A street price comparison will ALWAYS disadvantage a new model car. Heck, even the Sonata sold at MSRP for a month or so. Now you can get one for $4000 off MSRP. When the 2008 Accord comes out, it'll sell at MSRP too. By then, the Camry will be selling near invoice.

#1399 of 12297 Re: You [ctalk] by baggs32

Feb 28, 2006 (6:39 am)

Replying to: ctalk (Feb 27, 2006 4:52 pm)
Yes, this may be true, but where is the factual evidence?
 
There isn't any. You'll have to ask the manufacturers for that and something tells me they won't give it to you.
 
I doubt a mere statement like, "Get out on the net, read in other rooms", is enough to motivate a consumer to try a new brand. Not to say no one in these boards have credibility, but we should always take everything with a grain of salt.
 
I'd rather put my trust on a reputable source like CR or JD powers, than a forums board. Even then, sources like CR and JD powers may have flaws.
 
The biggest factor I found that influence consumers purchases are personal experiences. I know many people who have built on going trusts with brands.
 
I think you contradicted yourself once or twice in there. Were you maybe just trying to tell us to research thoroughly before buying and don't rely on just one source of info?

#1400 of 12297 Re: You [ctalk] - Reliability by cxc

Feb 28, 2006 (9:51 am)

Replying to: ctalk (Feb 27, 2006 4:52 pm)
I do not trust the CR reliability rating. However, I do trust the reliability rating of Automotive Information Systems (AIS), which can be found in msn.com. I had an engine problem with 2002 ES300 just out of warranty. After searching msn.com, AIS points out that 2002 ES300 has significant engine problems, and it will cost about $500 to fix. This is what cost me.

#1401 of 12297 Re: Fully loaded Accord v. Fully loaded Camry [jrock65] by prosa

Feb 28, 2006 (10:40 am)

Replying to: jrock65 (Feb 27, 2006 9:44 pm)
A street price comparison is much more relevant to someone getting the car right now, obviously. An MSRP comparison is more relevant as a general tool to measure a car's value over time.
A street price comparison will ALWAYS disadvantage a new model car.
 
Is there any rule of thumb as to how long a new model is likely to sell at or above MSRP, for example the first six months after going on sale? Or is there too much variation to generalize?

#1402 of 12297 Re: Fully loaded Accord v. Fully loaded Camry [prosa] by jrock65

Feb 28, 2006 (10:53 am)

Replying to: prosa (Feb 28, 2006 10:40 am)
"Is there any rule of thumb as to how long a new model is likely to sell at or above MSRP, for example the first six months after going on sale? Or is there too much variation to generalize?"
 
I think it's too hard to generalize. Popular cars like hybrids might remain near MSRP for a long time.
 
But with a high-volume mainstream car like the Camry, discounts will start soon. It also depends on the model though. Models with nav are usually harder to discount, for most cars.

#1403 of 12297 Re: You [ctalk] - Reliability [cxc] by krzyss

Feb 28, 2006 (11:05 am)

Replying to: cxc (Feb 28, 2006 9:51 am)
Have you had infamous sludge problem?
 
Krzy

Messages Page 141 of 1231

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