Last post on Apr 13, 2007 at 11:55 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Subaru Legacy, Saturn Aura, Sedan
#1388 of 12297 Re: Fully loaded Accord v. Fully loaded Camry [jrock65]
Feb 27, 2006 (8:05 am)
Yeah, that seems to be pretty good to me! Of course, it looked like this in 2002 when the NEW for 02 Camry was competing with the 1998-generation Accord. I wouldn't look for Accord to be out of the features game for long.
Remember when everyone flipped out b/c the Camry had a Navi system in 2002? The Accord quickly topped the Camry in terms of interior design (though exterior wasn't really an issue).
For now, though, as an Accord driver I'll say, that it looks like Toyota wins in the feature department! I wonder what comparable money from my EX 4-cyl Auto (cloth) would buy me in a Camry. $22000 is what I gave for it. (w/bluebook value on our trade in, so I don't count that as a negotiated loss).
I'd say the Accord's are best compared to SE Camry's in the Handling/Ride dept, true?
#1389 of 12297 Re: Fully loaded Accord v. Fully loaded Camry [jrock65]
Feb 27, 2006 (8:47 am)
The Camry has standard Fog Lights, I believe they are still a dealer installed accessory on the Accord, and the verdict is still out on the Camry's power passenger seat- photos show 8 way adjustable, but Toyota's Press Release states 4 way, which is a downgrade for the Camry XLE but comparable to the Accord.
Feb 27, 2006 (2:57 pm)
Camry looks much like the Mazda 6, don't you think?
#1391 of 12297 Fact of the matter is
Feb 27, 2006 (3:02 pm)
Consumers are going to realize, far before all the auto writers and reviewers.. that the Camry and Accord are no longer the great values they once were. All it takes is for that one person to drive either a Sonata, Fusion, Jetta, G6, Impala, or whichever.. for 100,000-150,000 miles and the magic of Toyota/Honda reliability are gone. Then what? Game on folks...
And please.. don't come back with the typical response of the Sonata, Ford, whichever would never make it 100,000 miles story... Get out on the net, read in other rooms. All car brands are making the miles... Cheers...
#1392 of 12297 Re: Fact of the matter is [scape2]
Feb 27, 2006 (3:44 pm)
Value is one thing. Some people are looking for the most car for their money. But others are looking for luxury features like nav, Bluetooth, Smartkey etc. which until recently were available only on luxury models. Until makes like Ford and Hyundai start offering features like these in their mid-sized cars, they will not be able to compete for these buyers who don't mind spending $25-30k on a mid-sized family sedan. But how many of these buyers are there, and would they be attracted to cars like the Avalon or TSX, or even the Azera, at this price point?
Feb 27, 2006 (3:52 pm)
seem to illustrate that all of these cars are equally reliable. Yes, this may be true, but where is the factual evidence? I doubt a mere statement like, "Get out on the net, read in other rooms", is enough to motivate a consumer to try a new brand. Not to say no one in these boards have credibility, but we should always take everything with a grain of salt. I'd rather put my trust on a reputable source like CR or JD powers, than a forums board. Even then, sources like CR and JD powers may have flaws. The biggest factor I found that influence consumers purchases are personal experiences. I know many people who have built on going trusts with brands.
I don't see Ford, VW, Chevrolet, etc... currently matching Honda's and Toyota's ranking in CR and JD powers.
Saying, "All car brands are making the miles", is a little to bold at this time.
Feb 27, 2006 (3:57 pm)
the problem with that theory is this...
Some people have had bad experiences with GM, Ford, VW and other companies in the past. True, some have had bad experiences with Honda and Toyota as well...but for years, particularly during the 1970's and 1980's, folks got so disgusted with GM and Ford that they turned to Honda, Nissan and Toyota and have not looked back.It will be TOUGH for GM and Ford in particular to gain those customers back.
My mother, for example used to drive a Chevy Vega way before my birth as well as a Ford Escort. The Escort was her last "domestic" car because she got rid of it for a Civic back in 1983. The Civic never gave her a problem..so she stuck with Honda...eventually buying a 1984 Accord, 1992 Accord, 1995 Passport and 2003 Honda Odyssey. She is in the market again for a new car and guess what car she is going to get? Another Honda..rather it be the Pilot, Accord or another Odyssey.It's hard to break owner loyalty if a certain brand has been good to you. My mother is only a simple example of WHY Hondas, Toyotas and to an extent Nissans sell so well.GM and Ford are going to have a tough time breaking into these segments because for years all folks have recommended were Hondas, Toyotas and Nissans and for good reason..because they have been good cars.
The simple difference between where GM was in the 1970s and 80s compared to how Toyota, Honda and Nissan are now is the fact that these companies keep IMPROVING upon their cars. Back in the 1970s and 80s, GM and Ford along with Chrysler allowed the Japanese to take over the market.
You won't see that happening with Toyota or Honda.
Further, GM's pricing may be coming down now...but before the sticker slashing starting taking place the cars were too expensive for what they were. Sure rebates and other incentives were available, but consumers were turned off by the pricing.
Basically GM and Ford have to FIRST..get people into their showrooms to look at their products. If they can't at least get NEW people who haven't always brought their products they basically fail at gaining new consumers.
For example..Hyundai is doing an excellent job right now of getting new people into their showrooms because the Sonata offers so much for so little. The Fusion is a pretty good car and is better in many ways than the current Camry or Accord. But that won't last long...the new Camry hits lots this week..and before long their will be a new Altima and in a year and a half a new Accord.
See what I'm getting at? True, the domestics have improved steadily, but once they do improve, its time for other cars in the segment to get redesigns as well.
True, there will be those who buy nothing but GM and buy nothing but Ford..but what GM and Ford has to work on is getting those who buy imports into their dealerships..and those first time buyers to buy their products.
If they can do that..THEN Honda, Toyota and Nissan have something to worry about.
And on the same token..its gonna be TOUGH for Toyota, Nissan and Honda to break into the full-size truck market because GM and Ford in particular have always made good trucks.
#1395 of 12297 Re: Fully loaded Accord v. Fully loaded Camry [jrock65]
Feb 27, 2006 (5:37 pm)
In reality, the difference will not be only $1300 since the Accord can be had very heavily discounted after being on sale for 4 years and the Camry isn't even available yet and will sell for near MSRP for at least a little while.
Compare street prices not sticker prices.
#1396 of 12297 Re: Fully loaded Accord v. Fully loaded Camry [jaxs1]
Feb 27, 2006 (6:03 pm)
True. My 2006 EX Accord was had for $22k and change. It stickers near $23,800, I think.
#1397 of 12297 Re: Fact of the matter is [backy]
Feb 27, 2006 (7:59 pm)
I think Honda and Toyota are conceding a good share of the lower end of this sector to Hyundai. The gentrification of the CamCord has raised their price tags, but their competition for the EXV6 and SE trims is tamer than that on the lesser trims. Unless CamCords start lowering prices Hyundai will buy more and more share with their pricing. HonToy's gotta see that!
But who knows? With the boomers retiring a new segment could arise that starts a whole new 'war', like mini's or crossovers.