Last post on Apr 13, 2007 at 12:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Subaru Legacy, Saturn Aura, Sedan
#1315 of 12297 Re: Consumers will make the choice [cxc]
Feb 22, 2006 (11:18 pm)
What if you buy a car at a decent price which has a decent resale value? I think that equals Best of Both Worlds.
I bought my Mazda6 at a steal from a dealer that was trying to get rid of the old model year and make room for the new one. So basically I got a 2004 at the end of 2004 for a steal. The dealer soaked up a lot of the depreciation cost due to the low cost. I am only down $3K in resale value, going on 2 years of ownership. Not bad at all. I think the Sonata may be able to do this as well, except for the fact that it isn't year end discounts that are driving the price down, but HUGE incentives that have been on the car since its introduction. I mean 3,500 is a lot on a car that is already low priced. I think Hyundai is putting itself in a whole because resale value is going to be low and the newer model years are not going to be able to sell at sticker. Imagine that a person is willing to sell their year used car at 1,500 under what they paid for it. Would you rather have a brand new model or a year used that is a whopping $5K cheaper? I think we all have to admit that Hyundai's strategy is to build market share and they are obtaining that but the cars will hurt in resale value because of it.
#1316 of 12297 Re: I compared Accord, Sonata, and Passat.... [alpha01]
Feb 22, 2006 (11:23 pm)
Alpha I am with you 100% on the 07 Camry vs Sonata. I think Toyota is tuning that SE to run with an Accord. I think Toyota saw the Accord's constant winnings in comparisons for driving dynamics and decent styling as a reason for concern. I am very interested in seeing the next Solara. Hopefully it will follow the same lines of the Camry SE for the restyle and stop reminding me of a very large frog that was beaten with an ugly stick.
Question for you alpha and anyone else. For anyone that has seen the 07 Camry in person. How do those optitron instrumentations look in person? They reminds me of my alarm clock and I really hope that isn't how it looks in person.
#1317 of 12297 Re: I compared Accord, Sonata, and Passat.... [driverdm]
Feb 23, 2006 (4:44 am)
They remind me of an alarm clock, or a Wal-Mart stereo, too. But overall I think the styling of the new Camry is better than that of the old one. One thing I am perplexed by with the new Camry, and all the new Toyotas, is that they don't have side strips to ward off door dings. I don't know what Toyota is thinking on that, unless they are trying to shave a few bucks in cost. I was also disappointed to see that the new Camry doesn't have folding mirrors--a common trend these days, unfortunately--the '06 Sonata and the Fusion/Milan don't have this feature, either.
The new Camry is much improved over the old one and certainly has more power--although the Azera is in the same range for about the same money. But the '07 Camry isn't out yet, so I think it is fair to compare cars that are actually available to the public, and to include in those comparisons the rebates that are widely available.
#1318 of 12297 Re: I compared Accord, Sonata, and Passat.... [alpha01]
Feb 23, 2006 (4:49 am)
I don't know what you like to bring into the picture or not. But rebates that are generally available are fair game I think. If you don't want to bring Toyota's rebates into the discussion because they are regional, that's OK by me. But it improves the value equation in favor of the Sonata; its rebates are available nationwide. Take off the owner loyalty rebate if you want--it's still a huge difference in price, especially if you don't consider Toyota's regional rebates.
As for discussing depreciation, I am surprised you would want to bring that into the picture because A) we have no idea how the much-improved '06 Sonata will fare re depreciation; B) depreciation is not a major factor if you keep a car more than a few years; C) if we bring depreciation into the picture, then to be fair don't we need to consider the full financial picture, including sales tax and financing costs on the price premium on the Camry?
#1319 of 12297 Mid-Size Comparisons?
Feb 23, 2006 (7:13 am)
Comparing a loaded Accord, Camry or Passat to a loaded Sonata is not actually fair considering price. The Azera is a more suitable comparison, and even in that vein, you can have a loaded Azera Limited, which is larger, suitably equipped and quite distinctive for way under $30k. The only disadvantage in buying a Hyundai today is their lack of a nav system, which means nothing to me, and the pretisge, perception and resale. Dollar for dollar, a Hyundai Sonata or Azera is a solid purchse. My inspection of an Azera yesterday at a BJ's was quite revealing. I had no idea what a 'step up' this was for Hyundai.
#1320 of 12297 Re: I compared Accord, Sonata, and Passat.... [backy]
Feb 23, 2006 (7:56 am)
I dont think the Lexus derived Optitron instrumentation looks at all like an alarm clock, and thats the first comparison I've ever heard stating that. The digits and pointers are very sharp and crisp. The Accord benefits from similarly legible displays from the same type of technology.
OTOH, the stereo display in the 02-06 Camry, that I could see being reminiscent of an alarm clock, but that could go for most stereo displays (definitely inclusive of the Sonata's 80s Apple computer looking display).
A) I doubt the Sonata's depreciation rate is going to improve significantly based on the fact that, as you state, there are significant incentives available on this redesigned, less than year on the market product, and the fact that Hyundai is doing a great job of selling to fleets. The Hertz at the Milwaukee airport alone has about 6 that I counted (just in the garage).
B)True. But its no fun to keep a car for 10 years!
C)Thats fair. Use Edmunds.com TCO and see which comes out as less expensive- A 2006 Sonata LX V6 with Premium Pkg or the 2006 Camry XLE + VSC and Side Airbags.
#1321 of 12297 Re: I compared Accord, Sonata, and Passat.... [ontop]
Feb 23, 2006 (8:12 am)
I felt the same way about the non-styling of the Sonata. Looks like an Altima from the mid 90s. Very plain.
You have got to be kidding. Please tell me where is the flair located on the 06 Accord? It's as bland as vanilla pudding Face it people, the Accord is is just as badly styled as the Camry. Saw two parked on my block, they seem to blend in well with all the other daily beaters out there. Nothing special about them. You want style? then look at Fusion or Madza6.
#1322 of 12297 Re: I compared Accord, Sonata, and Passat.... [alpha01]
Feb 23, 2006 (8:15 am)
I cant figure out how to do options with the TCO tool, but the $23.5K Sonata LX V6 has a TCO of 57 cents/mile over 5 years at 15,000 miles per, while the $26,400 Camry XLE V6 has TCO of 54 cents/mile over 5 years at 15,000 miles per.
#1323 of 12297 Re: I compared Accord, Sonata, and Passat.... [chrisford]
Feb 23, 2006 (8:52 am)
The Accord does suffer from a dated look. So does the Sonata. Talk about a dated look - compare the Fusion to a 96/97 Accord and discover the pilferage.
Hyundai seems intent on buying market share in this segment. If the Sonata was priced the same as a CamCord why would you buy one? Not exactly a sterling reputation out there in the public's eye for Hyundai compared to Camry's reliability and Accord's aircraft cockpit-like precision.
Change the Hyundai name.... to like....uh....
#1324 of 12297 Mid-Size Comparos ....Camry is King!!
Feb 23, 2006 (10:01 am)
The mid-size segment is the most important (sedan) segment for manufacturers. Listen, as much as we are subjective about the exterior and interiors of these manufacturers, the manufacturers who truly want to and have the potential to dominate, and there are only a few...Chev, Ford, Honda, Nissan and now Hyundai....all of them use the Camry as the benchmark. Sure, Mazda is a great car but they know they aren't going to sell 300,000 6's so they design and market for their goals. Hyundai, the new upstart, has the Camry in its bulleye for a number of reasons: stylng, even tho bland to many of us, the Camry is a huge winner and makes Toyota money. In fact, the Camry is what started Toyota off as a powerhouse. If you will remember back in 1990, the Camry was launched as a bigger and more substantial machine. I'll never forget the first time I saw that Camry and drove it, I recall commenting to my brother that this car was going to change everything for Toyota. All automakers are now shooting for a Camry-revolution when it comes to the mid-size segment. Keep in mind that even tho you build a great car you have to have a number of factors in your favor to make it happen. Dealership presence, brand image, perceived reliability, press(which requires $$) and tons of marketing. Ford did it with the Taurus years back, Honda has done it with the Accord, Nissan has done it with the previous generation Altima(this gen. Altima is a hit too but not a mid-size threat to the Camry) and now Hyundai. Altho they will pump out only about 120,000 Sonatas this year, Hyundai is anticipating selling nearly 200,000 in the next few years. And just like Toyota threw their money into the Camry over a decade ago, Hyundai is banking their entire future of all of its other offerings..New Azera, Accent, Santa Fe, 07 Elantra, 08 rear while drive Luxury sedan, Portico concept and larger Tahoe-like SUV on this Sonata and their marketing theme: "A Hyundai Like You've Never Seen Before' We can all dispute the interior, exterior but they do have a sales success on their hands so far and a ton of more people are cross-shopping because of this vehicle. How did it happen? They shot for the Camry!!!! They didn't choose Honda because the Accord, altho a press favorite isn't the benchmark for sales and profit like the Camry.
By the way, did you know that Hyundai's chief designer and the Toyota Chief Designer meet regularly? Read about the J-Factor and K-Factor in automotive design..kinda interesting.