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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread - READ ONLY

12297 messages,  Last post on Apr 13, 2007 at 12:55 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum.

What is this discussion about? Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Subaru Legacy, Saturn Aura, Sedan

Messages Page 1229 of 1230

#12278 of 12297 Re: Awkward... [backy] by elroy5

Feb 18, 2007 (9:37 pm)

Replying to: backy (Feb 18, 2007 9:12 pm)
My sister has a new Optima. I asked her how she liked it, and she said the only real complaint she has is the seats (not enough cushioning). She sounded satisfied with it, for the price.

#12279 of 12297 Vehicle Stability Control by kyrpto

Feb 19, 2007 (5:57 am)

VSC as Toyota/Lexus call it is the next big thing in safety. So much so thst the NIHS is reccomending that it be standard on all vehicles sold in America. It may end up saving more lives than seatbelts.
Having owned a Highlander AWD, Tundra D Cab 4WD, Scion xB, and now a Camry, all with VSC, I have personally experienced VSC in action. My '05 Tundra SR5 was ordered with it - now it is standard on all Tundras.

#12280 of 12297 Re: Ford Fusion Challenge [thegraduate] by akirby

Feb 19, 2007 (7:55 am)

Replying to: thegraduate (Feb 18, 2007 8:23 pm)
Just to set the record straight, Ford's AWD system will shift power to the rear BEFORE slip is detected under certain circumstances such as higher throttle input. It's not just reactive like some of the other systems.
 
And the difference in the Fusion Challenge vs. all of the other media tests? This one was decided by regular drivers and vehicle owners, not by automotive journalists trying to sell magazines.

#12281 of 12297 Re: Ford Fusion Challenge [akirby] by thegraduate

Feb 19, 2007 (8:24 am)

Replying to: akirby (Feb 19, 2007 7:55 am)
And the difference in the Fusion Challenge vs. all of the other media tests? This one was decided by regular drivers and vehicle owners, not by automotive journalists trying to sell magazines.
 
And paid for and edited by Ford who is trying to sell Fusions, not magazines. I think I'd rather trust a magazine editor than one working for Ford. Or, just make the decision myself.

#12282 of 12297 Re: Ford Fusion Challenge [neteng101] by captain2

Feb 19, 2007 (8:40 am)

Replying to: neteng101 (Feb 18, 2007 9:12 pm)
There is reason to believe that VSC is better than AWD as a safety feature while cornering
actually the systems serve different purposes - a true AWD/4WD will actually improve driveability especially in slippery conditions and one reason why the Subaru is the 'national' car of New England. VSC/Trac can get in the way in those same road conditions and is construed as a safety feature in that it will prevent the driver from exceeding whatever the mfgr (or their lawyers) has decided is that vehicle's cornering limits. Depending on how the system is set, of course, it is more valuable as a safety feature on normal road conditions.
You mentioned VDIM which had an interesting effect on the cornering (slalom) ability in the Lexus GS. Slalom speed was reduced because the computer 'thought' that the course traffic cones were impending accidents and the car shutdown before a competitive result could be achieved. The Toyota/Lexus systems, of course, not user defeatable.

#12283 of 12297 Re: Ford Fusion Challenge [captain2] by jeffyscott

Feb 19, 2007 (9:15 am)

Replying to: captain2 (Feb 19, 2007 8:40 am)
"VSC/Trac can get in the way in those same road conditions..."
 
You keep saying this same sort of thing, but I think you are mistaken. ESC does help in slippery conditions.
 
It also can improve the vehicles capabilities in some situations. I believe that the only time it is detrimental is if you are stuck in deep snow or want to plow through deep snow and, therefore, want to spin the wheels, this is the only time our manual suggests you might want to turn it off temporarily.
 
ESC is able to apply braking to individual wheels, you can not do this yourself. This can improve the vehicles cornering or accident avoidance abilities.
 
Perhaps Toyota just has a crappy system. Or perhaps the sloppy Toyota handling leads them to having to have a more intrusive system.
 
We have a VW and their system certainly does help in slippery conditions. I don't think it has ever engaged itself in any other circumstances. I did have to make a very sudden lane change at high speed once, but I think the car did it without the ESC coming on...it certainly did not reduce my speed.

#12284 of 12297 Re: Ford Fusion Challenge [thegraduate] by akirby

Feb 19, 2007 (9:19 am)

Replying to: thegraduate (Feb 19, 2007 8:24 am)
So why did Ford hire C&D to run the test? Why didn't they just run their own test? That would have been cheaper. No car magazine would ever run this type of test (with 600 regular drivers) so how is Ford supposed to get this kind of real world test without paying for it? As long as the participants aren't paid it's a perfectly valid test.

#12285 of 12297 Re: Ford Fusion Challenge [akirby] by 03accordman

Feb 19, 2007 (9:29 am)

Replying to: akirby (Feb 19, 2007 9:19 am)
"So why did Ford hire C&D to run the test? Why didn't they just run their own test? That would have been cheaper. No car magazine would ever run this type of test (with 600 regular drivers) so how is Ford supposed to get this kind of real world test without paying for it? As long as the participants aren't paid it's a perfectly valid test."
 
Ford hired CD to try and get some sort of credibility for the test, which in the end id did not achieve, apart from Ford fans, for whom it was not even needed. It may be valif to you, but not to people looking for honest reviews. Conflict of interest ring a bell?
 
I would like to see your comments if Honda or Toyota did a similar test, where their product won. Actually, you don't even give any credibility to CD for picking the Accord time and again or MT for picking the Camry, so I guess I know the answer to that.

#12286 of 12297 Re: Ford Fusion Challenge [akirby] by neteng101

Feb 19, 2007 (9:29 am)

Replying to: akirby (Feb 19, 2007 9:19 am)
Its not a real world test when cars go around in a small set circuit. Driving a set stretch of roads that simulate various real world driving conditions is much closer to the real world. The testing methodology employed by the Fusion Challenge is flawed.

#12287 of 12297 Re: Ford Fusion Challenge [akirby] by 03accordman

Feb 19, 2007 (9:31 am)

Replying to: akirby (Feb 19, 2007 7:55 am)
"And the difference in the Fusion Challenge vs. all of the other media tests? This one was decided by regular drivers and vehicle owners, not by automotive journalists trying to sell magazines."
 
There you go. So to sell mags, CD or other publications are biased and pick market leaders, but Ford's paid event is unbaised, right? You are just tyring to gain some propaganda derived credibility for the event, by saying calling it a 'real world event.'

Messages Page 1229 of 1230

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