Last post on Apr 13, 2007 at 11:55 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Subaru Legacy, Saturn Aura, Sedan
#10891 of 12297 Re: 2006 Sonata vs 2003 Accord [joe97]
Jan 23, 2007 (6:12 am)
Hi - I realize my mileage is on the very low end. I completely expect that based on the way I drive. That is not an issue.
The issue is that the more powerful, faster, older V6 I traded in (Accord), got 6 to 8 mpg better than the new Sonata. That is what is very dissapointing. It shows me that Hyundai is still far behind Honda in terms of technology, engines, and refinement.
The leak I was told was not a common issue. However, the windshield washer motor that was burned out - service guy at the dealer said that was a common issue - he had seen several. Again - multiple trips to the dealer for getting stuff fixed on the Hyundai vs none by the Accord.
I'm not sure where you live but the resale value around here is in the toilet. I'm already wanting to get rid of this junky Hyundai and looks like I'll have to try and sell it myself rather than trading it in. Again that is very dissapointing as I got offered more from the dealer on my Accord than what I would have acccepted in my head before I went in. Was very happy with they offered me. I know that resale value is strongly affected by fleets and the Sonata is over 50% fleet while the accord is at 1%. This also shows that the retail demand (real end consumers) is low for the Sonata as people don't really want it thus killing resale value even more!
Oh well live and learn - I'll never be so cheap again when it comes to buying a car! Lesson learned!!!
#10892 of 12297 Re: Acceleration!? Acceleration!? We're Talking About Acceleration!? [prosource1]
Jan 23, 2007 (7:01 am)
More than half of the car buying public could care less about acceleration.
But, if some of us in here talk about it, why does that bother you? Just don't respond and move on to the next post. You can talk about seat fabric if you want to, I don't care. I'm willing to bet more than half the buying public cares about it, whether or not they know it. Guess what I have to do to turn onto my street everyday? Accelerate. I have to accelerate to blend with traffic on the interstate as well, something that requires decent abilities in the engine bay.
I won't even get on the impracticality bandwagon of the whole acceleration debate.
Acceleration? Acceleration? Most people get the heck in their car and drive to work and never consider the 0-60 thing. Now realize, as the former owner of a Maxima, I was thrilled by this V6 after owning a 4-cylinder for 15 years. But c'mon most could care less so lets not make acceleration more than it is.
Ok. They don't have to respond to posts about acceleration or "car enthusiast-topics" here either.
Carry on talking about airbags, stereos, and warranties. I'll participate, as I have all three!
#10893 of 12297 why we should care
Jan 23, 2007 (7:17 am)
acceleration is also the ability to merge more quickly onto the highway, and also the ability to use a sometimes aggressive approach to avoiding an accident - among other things. Other factors equal, the more powerful car is safer than the same car that is more challenged. And you don't need to be a closet drag racer to appreciate that - HP, handling and braking all figure very prominently into what makes a good, safe car - even more so that crash test results, airbags, and other 'safety' systems.
#10894 of 12297 Re: Neighbor [akirby]
Jan 23, 2007 (7:21 am)
"Don't you think the fact that Toyota recalled more vehicles last year than it sold (first time in history I'm sure) is significant? Engine sludge, transmission problems, steering problems......etc. I'm NOT saying that Toyota is any worse than the others - they're not. But they're certainly not pristine anymore when it comes to reliability."
You have just proven Leadfoot's point; 'educated' does not mean being knowledgeable about only Toyota problems, but problems with all cars a person is considering, which sadly was not the intention of that post.
How can she be considered 'educated' only because she bought an Altima? That post clearly implied that anyone not buying a Toyota is 'educated' because of the probems the Camry had at introduction.
#10895 of 12297 Re: 2006 Sonata vs 2003 Accord [matt44]
Jan 23, 2007 (7:22 am)
Depreciation, residual value, and/or resale value mean nothing, unless you trade or sell your car. Just as with the stock market, the market value of a stock at a given snapshot of time is meaningless, unless you sell your stock at that time.
If you're one who trades a car every 2 through 4 years, don't buy ANYTHING affordable to the masses other than a Honda or Toyota (and, Scion). Most every other marque, including the up-scale European brands, will kill you on depreciation during that short period of time.
However, if you keep a car 10 years or longer, the debate on which marque you purchase is really somewhat moot. Just make sure you make the right decision in the first place, and you will be happy.
#10896 of 12297 Re: why we should care [captain2]
Jan 23, 2007 (8:33 am)
I'm not sure which you're meaning. But IMO the horsepower peak rating means little for a car. It's the amount of torque it produces at a usable rpm and the choices of final drive ratio along withgearing ratios in the transmission that make a car really peppy and usable. I.E., the horsepower races of my car make 8 more horsepower than yours at 6000 rpm means little if the torque at 4000 is less than the lower peak horsepower car.
Zero to 60 times mean little because I don't do much drag racing. I do some acceleration from stoplights and stop signs and just want the car to feel strong and that it's doing that easily.
The handling is a factor in ow the car feels valued in the way each driveer wants it to behave; I don't do much avoid accidents where I swerve and go around telephone poles and back on the roadway. But I do want a car that reacts to steering input predicatably.
Crash testing is easily built for in a car. It may not be as safe for other forms and directions of impact but it may meet the particular design standard for a 50% frontal collision with a certain shaped solid barrier; doesn't mean much when it meets up with an SUV or a guardrail anchor end.
The numbers don't tell the WHOLE story.
#10897 of 12297 Re: 2006 Sonata vs 2003 Accord [w9cw]
Jan 23, 2007 (8:35 am)
However, if you keep a car 10 years or longer, the debate on which marque you purchase is really somewhat moot.
True - though there has been a track record in the past of old Accords/Camrys going tons of miles in their old age without much problems. Its like either way, Honda/Toyota seems to have an edge on other margues.
#10898 of 12297 Re: Neighbor [03accordman]
Jan 23, 2007 (8:35 am)
I wasn't defending the previous post - just responding to leadfoot6's implication that the only problem was a few teething pains on the 07 Camry tranny. It's a bit worse than that.
#10899 of 12297 Re: Neighbor [akirby]
Jan 23, 2007 (9:08 am)
Don't you think the fact that Toyota recalled more vehicles last year than it sold (first time in history I'm sure) is significant? Engine sludge, transmission problems, steering problems......etc. I'm NOT saying that Toyota is any worse than the others - they're not. But they're certainly not pristine anymore when it comes to reliability.
Inaccurate but not surprisingly so. Check your figures for US recalls in 2006. Except DCX the other 3 went down significantly. There is no way to judge any trends by recall numbers because it's a different environment now than 10 yrs ago, before Ford/Firestone. Cars are getting safety recalls on cupholders and carpeting.
This article from the Detroit News will give you a good view of what the real situation is.
Big 4 Recalls over the last 3 years
#10900 of 12297 Re: Neighbor [akirby]
Jan 23, 2007 (9:09 am)
It's a bit worse than that.
I think you would like it to be but it is not. It's just a different environment than pre-2000.