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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread - READ ONLY

12297 messages,  Last post on Apr 13, 2007 at 11:55 AM

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What is this discussion about? Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Ford Fusion, Subaru Legacy, Saturn Aura, Sedan

#2 of 12297 Comparison by tanya2 Apr 20, 2005 (2:52 am)
A better comparison would be as follows: Camry, Accord, Maxima, Hyundai 350, Passat & Mazda 6. --------I do not think that the Sonata is on the same level as the Accord, Camry or Maxima! ------- Tanya
#3 of 12297 Re: Comparison by whitecloud1 Apr 20, 2005 (3:18 am)
tanya2, on the contrary, the newer Sonatas are meant to compare with this class. Not to say it does, but it is meant to. The Hyundai 350 is meant to compete with Accord EX V6 and Toyota Avalon type cars. Base Accords and Camrys can't hold a candle to a Nissan Maxima either. Replies to this message: motownusa (Apr 20, 2005 8:54 am) alpha01 (Apr 20, 2005 12:14 pm) bigwill30 (Mar 09, 2006 9:27 pm) jhinsc (Mar 10, 2006 4:59 am) thegraduate (Mar 10, 2006 7:22 am) and 1 more...
#4 of 12297 Re: Comparison [whitecloud1] by motownusa Apr 20, 2005 (8:54 am)
Replying to: whitecloud1 (Apr 20, 2005 3:18 am) The all new 06 Sonata will have a 237 Hp V6 engine. That should give it a 0 to 60 time of no more than 7 seconds. Of course by then the 3.5L engine could find its way into the Camry giving it a 0 to 60 sprint in the mid 6 seconds. Mazda6 is still behind with its crappy Ford sourced duratec V6 engine. Mazda seriously need to ditch that engine. Replies to this message: alpha01 (Apr 20, 2005 12:14 pm) bigwill30 (Mar 09, 2006 9:27 pm) jhinsc (Mar 10, 2006 4:59 am) thegraduate (Mar 10, 2006 7:22 am) 94hawkskin (Mar 10, 2006 8:12 am)
#5 of 12297 Addition please by spinzero Apr 20, 2005 (12:00 pm)
Any reason that the comparo doesn't include my favorite midsize car? Namely,   Subaru Legacy   It might be a bit pricier than other japanese offerings, but still not nearly as overpriced as Passat. And I'm a firm believer that Legacy 2.5GT is the best performer among the pack.   BTW, I second that Mazda needs to ditch that crappy duratec V6. It's really slowing down an otherwise well engineered car. They either need to develop a new V6, or drop a small turbo 2.3 instead and call it european inspired. Replies to this message: alpha01 (Apr 20, 2005 12:21 pm) seniorjose (Mar 05, 2006 12:41 pm)
#6 of 12297 Re: Comparison [motownusa] by alpha01 Apr 20, 2005 (12:14 pm)
Replying to: motownusa (Apr 20, 2005 8:54 am) IMO, theres more to a vehicle than its performance, more to performance than acceleration, and more to acceleration than the 0-60. With the pricing recently announced, the Sonata looks to be an incredible entry for the features and dollar, just as with Hyundais of the past. However, unlike some Hyundais of the past, this model, if it rides and handles well, and is built to last, has the potential to be a segment leader.   The Duratec V6 in the Mazda isnt a bad engine at all, and its rev-happy nature is suited to that car's demeanor. This year, Ford added a 6 speed transmission which is said to have sharpened the performance of the vehicle. Although I havent yet driven one, I would like to, as the somewhat unimpressive transmission on the last V6 was one of the vehicles more serious flaws. Do people forget that Toyota is using the increasingly antique and fairly thirsty 210 horse 3.0L V6 that debuted in the Fall of 1991 as part of the Camry Gen 3 lineup? Theres an engine that needs to be ditched. (IMO, Toyota's new engine family 2.5L, 3.0L, 3.5L... all derived from the 4.0L which showed up first in the 2003 4Runner.... should replace the current FWD/AWD V6s as soon as possible.)   For what its worth, Accord sales YTD are down 9% from the prior year, Altima sales are down 1.2% and Camry sales are up 3%. That said, Honda is spending an average of $750 per Accord in incentives, whereas Toyota is spending $1250, according to a recent Wall Street Journal article. I'd expect that the Altima and 6 have slightly higher spending than the Camry. As a point of reference, GM is stuffing over $3600 worth of incentives on every G6 sold. I'd say that given the age of the Altima and Camry (both in the 4th model year of 5 year cycles), they are doing quite well.   Among models in the 25-27K range, here is my preference order: Camry SE V6 (w/ Premium Pkg, VSC, Side Curtains) Accord EX V6 Mazda 6 S Grand Touring Altima 3.5SE (w/ ABS&SAC pkg, Leather Sport Pkg)   Having not driven the Sonata yet, I'm not sure where it would fall, but I'd imagine near the top. That said, theres not a model that tweaks the Sonata for sporting intentions yet, so the above crowd may not be the best place where the NF might shine.   I agree that the Hyundai XG/Azera and Nissan Maxima do not belong in the same comparison circle as the others, and I dont think the new Passat does either. Like the Jetta, its price will be signifcantly inflated, and the incoming car is significantly larger than the old. Jrock, I think this was a great idea.   ~alpha
#7 of 12297 Re: Addition please [spinzero] by alpha01 Apr 20, 2005 (12:21 pm)
Replying to: spinzero (Apr 20, 2005 12:00 pm) The problem with the Legacy is that the GT Limited exacts a premium of about 3-4 grand over the others mentioned here (when similarly equipped).   We love ours (a 2.5i Sedan 4EAT), but its not without flaws, and the AWD exacts a toll in efficiency and pricing.   ~alpha
#8 of 12297 My opinion by newcar31 Apr 20, 2005 (3:58 pm)
Mazda6 is still behind with its crappy Ford sourced duratec V6 engine. Mazda seriously need to ditch that engine.   I second that Mazda needs to ditch that crappy duratec V6.   You guys haven't driven one. There is no way that you could drive the Mazda6s and think that the engine is "crappy". If you come back here and tell me that you have driven it, I'm going to call you a liar.   I don't even have the V6, I have the 2.3L with a manual, but I've driven the V6 a few times and it is not a crappy engine. It is smooth, sounds GREAT, and it the tach needle just loves to fly to redline. My parents have a Camry V6 and an Infiniti I35, so I have driven other good V6s to compare it to.   This year, Ford added a 6 speed transmission which is said to have sharpened the performance of the vehicle.   The 6 speed is an automatic, and it's Aisin, not Ford sourced. Aisin supplies Toyota with transmissions also.   FWIW, my favorites in this class are the Legacy, Mazda6, and the Altima with it's new interior.   The Accord sedan just looks nasty but I like everything else about it, the Camry looks too big and boring, the Passat is a VW and I would never buy a VW, and the jury in my head is out with the Hyundai. Just my opinion of course.
#9 of 12297 Another opinion by bklynguy Apr 20, 2005 (4:54 pm)
The Accord could use better styling (and may get it with the 06 refresh) but everything else is great, especially the interior. We liked the Legacy but didn't feel like paying a premium for AWD. We rented a 05 Camry for a few days and didn't like the light steering. The poor reliability of the Passat & 6 kept them off our list.   The Altima wasn't bad but doesn't feel as refined as the Accord to us. Of course we didn't have a chance to take a test drive of the 06 Sonata which we plan to as soon as they arrive. These are just our opinions.
#10 of 12297 Regarding Duratec by spinzero Apr 20, 2005 (7:29 pm)
Yes, I have testdriven Mazda6s, and while the car handled very nicely, I was quite unimpressed with the motor. The duratec is crappy because it is at best mediocre compared to its competitions.   Nissan Altima: 250HP / 249TQ 20/30 Honda Accord: 240HP / 212TQ 21/30 Subaru Legacy: 250HP / 250TQ 19/25   Mazda 6: 220HP / 192TQ 20/27    As you can see, Duratec makes the least amount of power, by far the least amount of torque, and still gets the lowest mileage among front drivers. As far as being "rev-happy" goes, Duratec wasn't too bad. But I suggest you drive the Legacy GT and feel how EJ25 revs up. Accord's V-TEC is also a nicely revving engine, and there isn't much needs for VQ35 to rev high, when you have that much torque all over the rev range. (and again, still gets better mileage.)   And no, being sportier than Camry is not much of a compliment.   I'm by no means bashing 6, it is my favorite FWD sedan on the market. Please take it as constructive criticism. Now, you can call me liar all you want. Replies to this message: alpha01 (Apr 21, 2005 7:13 am)
#11 of 12297 Owned 3 Of Them by fitguy Apr 20, 2005 (7:59 pm)
I've owned (not just driven) 3 of the bunch, here is my spin: 2000 Passat 1.8T: nice when new, a fussy piece of crap as it aged. Only runs well on premium, many problems including the infamous "oil sludge" issue even with fanatical maintenance. Would not recommend to an enemy.   2003 Accord Coupe 2.4L: Bought because I hated the looks of the sedan but wanted a Honda (3rd Accord) after owning the disaster above. Excellent in almost every category; 0 problems, 34 mpg hwy on 87 octane. Still excellent cars, but PLEASE fix the looks of the sedan!   2004 Mazda6S Hatchback: Bought for the fun, utility, and so as not to have to look at an Accord sedan in my driveway . Strong Points: Driving atttributes, overall build quality in terms of body "tightness", good looks. Weak Points: Gas mileage, road noise, some cheap interior/component parts (heater fan, for example), transmission (5 speed auto, hear '05 6 spd much better) not a great match for the motor. Overall: A more enjoyable car overall than the other two; if the reliability holds out, the better choice by far if you like to push a car to it's handling limits once in a while, and with the hatch- if you need to load a bunch of bulky stuff in it once in a while. Of course, looks/body style are subjective- but reliablity is quantifiablle and some cars are just not.

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