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Ford Mustang (2005) vs. 2005 Pontiac GTO

2056 messages,  Last post on May 27, 2009 at 5:34 PM

You are in the Ford Mustang Forum.

What is this discussion about? Ford Mustang, Pontiac GTO, Coupe, Convertible

Messages Page 68 of 207

#664 of 2056 Re: move over Edsel here comes GTO [dave50] by 442man

May 20, 2005 (1:25 pm)

Replying to: dave50 (May 20, 2005 12:54 pm)
I remember reading somewhere that PRE SAE, Gross Horsepower ratings you have to take away about 20% to get the SAE figure. 375hp 1969 engine is about 300 to 310hp by todays ratings.
 
Some cars were under-rated like that one rare Corvette in the mid or late 1960's that was really making 500+HP Gross, but Chevy under-rated it.
 
Of course there is Ford with the 1999 or 2000 Mustang? That was reallying making 10 or 20hp less then what Ford said. They settled it.

#665 of 2056 Still doesn't get IRS but still gains 200+ lbs by 442man

May 20, 2005 (1:33 pm)

GT500 which still doesn't get a IRS and starts at $39k is gaining nearly 200+ pounds in curb weight over a GT V8. Go figure?

#666 of 2056 Re: That's just, like, your opinion, man! (The Dude) [gottabgto] by tayl0rd

May 20, 2005 (1:44 pm)

Replying to: gottabgto (May 20, 2005 11:59 am)
For the record, not once have I trashed the GTO or its owners. But you may have been talk about other posters.
 
Anyway, graphicguy said exactly what I've been wanting to say. Mustang owners don't care that GTO owners bought GTOs. More power (literally) to them. Just enjoy your car and stop trying to convince us that the GTO is a better car. We clearly don't agree, otherwise we'd be driving GTOs, too. However, I thoroughly enjoy driving my '05 GT when I can. It serves as my sunny weekend car. Unfortunately, I only get to drive it about 3 or 4 hours per month. Six months and I haven't even put 3,000 miles on it yet. But summer is upon us!

#667 of 2056 Re: Still doesn't get IRS but still gains 200+ lbs [442man] by tayl0rd

May 20, 2005 (1:47 pm)

Replying to: 442man (May 20, 2005 1:33 pm)
GT500 which still doesn't get a IRS and starts at $39k is gaining nearly 200+ pounds in curb weight over a GT V8. Go figure?
 
19" wheels/tires, full ground effects, new hood and front fascia, a bigger engine, a supercharger, and all it's plumbing, as well as oil coolers will tend to do that to a car.

#668 of 2056 IRS? (tiire kicker Dave) by dave50

May 20, 2005 (2:20 pm)

I remember driving some older vettes with IRS. I personally coundn't tell the difference or notice anything. Do you really have to be maxing the car around a corner to tell? Is it a big deal? Please advise.

#669 of 2056 442man by rorr

May 20, 2005 (2:22 pm)

"the head engineer of Ford Mustang wanted the IRS, Ford told him no, due to cost. It wasn't because Ford did a good job with it, the bean counters wouldn't allow it!!"
 
This occured early in the development of the car and the 'bean counters' were making their decision based on the cost of the suspension in the t-bird and the Lincoln LS. However, after the decision was made to stay with a solid rear-end, the engineer's THEN developed a rear suspension which WOULD meet their design requirements DESPITE the fact that it was not IRS. Has it occured to you that one reason the head engineer wanted IRS was because they already HAD the IRS system already essentially designed, and NOT necessarily because it would be 'better'?
 
You make it sound as though the car's development was all done and then, during pre-production, the bean counters dumped on everyone's parade re: IRS and the engineers just hastily slapped in the same rear-end as the '04 units. Uh, no.
 
If a particular automotive system (be it rear-end suspension design or valvetrain design) MEETS all of the design requirements, and is cheaper than the more conventional 'sophisticated' design, why not use it? Why should Ford use an IRS if a solid rear end meets the design targets? For that matter, why should GM use an OHC head if pushrods work as well (if not better), for less money and less space?
 
Bottom line - the bean counters are not ALWAYS wrong. Sometimes, ocassionally, the same results CAN be achieved with a cheaper, simpler design.

#670 of 2056 Re: Still doesn't get IRS but still gains 200+ lbs [tayl0rd] by 442man

May 20, 2005 (3:18 pm)

Replying to: tayl0rd (May 20, 2005 1:47 pm)
......"19" wheels/tires, full ground effects, new hood and front fascia, a bigger engine, a supercharger, and all it's plumbing, as well as oil coolers will tend to do that to a car......"
 
No, it's engineering and cost. 505hp Z06 is actually lighter then the regular std 400hp vette by 50 or 100 lbs. That is why Z06 is an astronomical $63k or $65k. Still cheaper then a Viper though. 3100 lbs.

#671 of 2056 Re: 442man [rorr] by graphicguy

May 20, 2005 (3:19 pm)

Replying to: rorr (May 20, 2005 2:22 pm)
EXACTLY...as Thai-tang has said many times, also......the development of the solid rear is something he's very proud of. Matter of fact, he's challenged anyone to drive the Mustang and compare it to an IRS car. That's what I did. That's one of the reasons I made the choice of the Mustang over the GTO.
 
The Mustang has as good a suspension as I've driven in its market. While it won't match the handling of my dearly departed RX8, it's mighty close.....and certainly more positive than anything I've driven short of a Corvette. I'd go out on a limb and say the Mustang is a more entertaining drive than anything I've driven.
 
The RX8 was also way entertaining.....just in a different way than the Mustang.

#672 of 2056 Re: 442man [rorr] by 442man

May 20, 2005 (3:23 pm)

Replying to: rorr (May 20, 2005 2:22 pm)
Sorry but the IRS is superior to the solid rear axle, you can argue all you want. Ford's own head engineer requested demanded IRS but was shot down.
 
Pushrods have a smaller center of gravity less height and lighter motor, less weight then their DOHC counterparts. If you recall, history lesson, PUshrod engine is actually newer technology then DOHC. DOHC was before pushrod. After driving GTO, can't tell dif between Pushrod of DOHC, there is power at any RPM. all the way to 6500rpm redline which is higher then OHC Mustangs redline. Z06 has a redline of 7000rpm on pushrods, pretty impressive. DOHC engines now use variable valve timing to try to come close to pushrod, but still doesn't work. Bottom line is pushrod is more efficient, especially in highway gas mileage.
 
Pretty impressive that GTO has 100 more hp then Mustang, much bigger displacement and is 300+ lbs heavier and gets same gas mileage, stick shift to stick shift. GTO is 17 and 25. Same as Mustang stick.
 
The Vette gets 28 highway on a big pushrod 400hp 6 Liter, pretty impressive!!! That is better then some V6 cars that only have 3 or 3.5 liters displacement.

#673 of 2056 Re: 442man [graphicguy] by 442man

May 20, 2005 (3:23 pm)

Replying to: graphicguy (May 20, 2005 3:19 pm)
The problem with the RX8 was NO TORQUE. Have to keep RPMs at a certain level to make power. where as GTO or Mustang, instant power at almost any RPM.

Messages Page 68 of 207

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