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Ford Mustang (2005) vs. 2005 Pontiac GTO

2056 messages,  Last post on May 27, 2009 at 5:34 PM

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What is this discussion about? Ford Mustang, Pontiac GTO, Coupe, Convertible

Messages Page 204 of 206

#2028 of 2056 Same Block, different configuration... by theatasigma

Aug 11, 2007 (8:55 pm)

Re: GT V. GTO [vertical3] by sensai
Not sure what point you are trying to make. For starters, the 4.6 is shared across many Ford cars/trucks, so technically it is borrowed too. And what exactly would be the point of handicapping GTOs with a smaller displacement (yet physically bigger and heavier) engine or one that made less power? Shouldn't you be clamoring for Ford to release a higher hp V8 in the GTs and not for GM to release less powerful engines in there cars...
 
While the 4.6 has been around since the early 90's, the configuration of 4.6 for the Mustang GT unique to it. Up until the 2006 year, only the GT used the 4.6L 3 Valve Engine configuration (The V8 Explorers now share it too, but it has less horsepower for the Explorers).
 
The problem I have with the GTO is it is a cool car (prefer Fords myself) but when I look at the lineup I find them uninspired. Yeah it is nice to have a car that goes incredibly fast, but I need more than that to justify buying it. If I was to get a decent performance car from GM, I would most likely choose an Impala SS over a GTO. Now if someone was to give me a GTO I wouldn't turn it down...
 
TS

#2029 of 2056 Re: Same Block, different configuration... [theatasigma] by vertical3

Aug 12, 2007 (5:28 pm)

Replying to: theatasigma (Aug 11, 2007 8:55 pm)
Well the news out that the Challenger is available with up to 425 HP is irritating. Rumbles are GM is having issues wanting to bring out the Camaro within budget and still be a Pony/GTO/MoPar killer.
 
Wouldn't be cool if the Pontiac R & D guys solicited existing GTO owners for input on body style, ergonomics, and power packages?
 
Might get some ideas on a "retro" look that FoMoCo found so successful with the 05+ S197 platform that is today's Mustang.

#2030 of 2056 Re: Same Block, different configuration... [vertical3] by baggs32

Aug 12, 2007 (7:10 pm)

Replying to: vertical3 (Aug 12, 2007 5:28 pm)
Wouldn't be cool if the Pontiac R & D guys solicited existing GTO owners for input on body style, ergonomics, and power packages?
 
Kind of like Ford did with the current Mustang? They let Mustang owners/fans give a lot of input in the current iteration and it paid off I think we can all agree.

#2031 of 2056 Re: Same Block, different configuration... [theatasigma] by jae5

Aug 31, 2007 (1:09 pm)

Replying to: theatasigma (Aug 11, 2007 8:55 pm)
I don't mean to start anything (haven't posted in a long time but read this from time to time), and I can't believe I'm doing this, agreeing with Sensai but he is correct. The 4.6 was first intro'd in the 91 ~ 92 time frame in the CV/GM/Continental FWD and was the 2-valver. The Mustang got the motor in the 96 timeframe, with better intake/exhaust, but was the same motor. And the 4.6 4-valve DOHC motor for the Cobra (also the last Mach 1) came from the Mark VIII; believe it was called In-tech.
 
The 3-valve didn't come out until the current-gen Mustang came out, but the trucks got it as well. All the press may have been on the Mustang but the 3-valve was also on the trucks.
 
What I don't like about the 4.6L is that it seemed to be stuck in HP-Limbo for a long time and only now is making 300 (or 320 depending on who you talk too). And it seems that you have to do an SC or something heavy to it to make it scoot; you just can't do a cam and/or head swap to increase performance like on an LS-engine. It seemed from day 1 the LS-family was similar to the traditional SB where you can do simple (semi-simple) traditional bolt-ons and get good gains; you can't seem to do that to the 4.6L.
 
Remember, the 4.6/5.4L is just like the LS-X engines, they're corporate, kind of like the 302/351W & the 350 workhorses.
 
Happy hunting

#2032 of 2056 Re: Same Block, different configuration... [jae5] by vertical3

Sep 01, 2007 (7:02 pm)

Replying to: jae5 (Aug 31, 2007 1:09 pm)
One thing with the 4.6 is there's plenty of room to work work with. Adding a Vortech or Magnacharger SC can put you 500HP.
 
Bring back the Boss 302.....

#2033 of 2056 Blank Palette by mschmal

Sep 04, 2007 (3:47 am)

Definately something to keep in mind. The 4.6 may not have high output from the factory, but Ford is not exactly maxing this engine out either. A lot of potential growth is left for the owner to find.
 
Keep in mind that the Mustang is a price leader.
 
Mark.

#2034 of 2056 Re: Same Block, different configuration... [vertical3] by jae5

Sep 06, 2007 (11:03 am)

Replying to: vertical3 (Sep 01, 2007 7:02 pm)
Oh I agree, but I just wish you didn't have to do the SC. I mean, beyond the TB, exhaust, what other simple or semi-simple bolt-ons can you do to the stock 4.6 to get some real gains (please, no NOx)? It just seems this sucker should be putting out more without the need to SC it. That's what has always bothered me about the mod motor. If there's more power on the table unleash it man!! And like the Poncho owners here have stated, they can just do the same thing, or do a semi-simple hot-cam or head swap and away they go.
 
And I will admit you can get some crazy gains from the last-gen Cobra. Just doing a plug-n-play tune on the ECM gets some great gains; swap the pulley and you get another nice boost (no pun intended).
 
Sorry for that Mustang-only side-track...

#2035 of 2056 Re: Same Block, different configuration... [jae5] by vertical3

Sep 06, 2007 (12:13 pm)

Replying to: jae5 (Sep 06, 2007 11:03 am)
I guess the simplest avenue next would be to change the gear ratio to a 3.73 or 4.10. Short of Ford going to a 32v variant of the 4.6, without a way of (in simple terms) forcing more air in, It's a big $$ investment. Don't forget the GTO had a Vette engine and powertrain dropped in. It would be interesting to see what Ford could do with a N/A 5.4 32v (like that used in the Navigator) Should be able to at least get 400 out of it....

#2036 of 2056 Re: Same Block, different configuration... [vertical3] by mschmal

Sep 07, 2007 (4:32 am)

Replying to: vertical3 (Sep 06, 2007 12:13 pm)
Actually thats what they did for the Shelby GT500.
 
4 valves apparently isn't the solution that everyone assumes it is.
 
4 valvers loose some of their low end torque. You also have the added complexity of the DOHCs.
 
What I find interesting is that Honda is able to fit enough loobs on one cam shaft to run all four valves in their four cylinders with out haveing to go DOHC.
 
The SC upgrades IMHO are very affordable when you consider the potential gain. You are less then $5k and you can get a very nice Mustang GT for just around $30k. So for a total investment of $35,000 you can build a Corvette beater. At least in the str8s.
 
Mark

#2037 of 2056 Where the GTO missed the boat. by mschmal

Sep 07, 2007 (4:34 am)

One that that Ford is doing with the Mustang that Pontiac should have done with the GTO is to get the car onto the track.
 
Mustang is doing very well in the racing classes both in the states and in Europe...This dispite a live axle.
 
Track creed for this type of car has to mean something.
 
Mark.

Messages Page 204 of 206

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