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Ford Mustang (2005) vs. 2005 Pontiac GTO

2056 messages,  Last post on May 27, 2009 at 5:34 PM

You are in the Ford Mustang Forum.

What is this discussion about? Ford Mustang, Pontiac GTO, Coupe, Convertible

Messages Page 179 of 206

#1780 of 2056 Re: Is there really such a thing as a GT w/ no options? [tayl0rd] by dclark2

Jan 31, 2006 (9:26 pm)

Replying to: tayl0rd (Jan 31, 2006 8:27 pm)
"Ever heard of the 2000 Mustang Cobra R? Boss 429? GT500KR? GT350? The original Mach 1? The Ford 389cid V8? Gimme a break.
And an iron block is no more low tech than PUSHRODS!"
 
I hate to burst your bubble but iron is low tech. See, iron is a metal, a very, very heavy metal. Now, it is bad to have too much weight in any car, especially the front- bad, bad, bad!
Now, aluminum is a much lighter metal. Lighter is good! Good, good,good! An aluminum motor can weigh over 150lbs less than an iron equivalent.Less weight up front means a better weight balance and better handling.
However, Ford doesn't really care about handling (remember that truck like rear suspension in the mustang?), so they could care less if the car has a 60/40 weight balance. Heck, that might be a bit too much math for the typical Ford buyer to understand!
Very few motors are made out of iron because it is too heavy. Aluminum is the way. Even GM knew this when they made an all aluminum big block for the camaros (and two 'vettes) back in '69. Aluminum is tricky stuff- it isn't as strong as iron, nor can it take heat as well as iron, so it requires some good engineering.
Now, do you you remember what I said about Ford's poor engineering? Do you? Well, unlike the rest of the world's great car makers, the idea of making a high output v8 aluminum motor is out of their grasp. They simply don't know how to make one! They tried with their regular block, but said that they had "durability issues". Gee, I thought that was a ford standard feature!Now, they are going to put a bot anchor of a motor in the gt500.
So, that is why iron blocks are old tech. And no, you won't find them on a Pontiac, Porsche or any other performance car, for that reason. If you think that iron blocks aren't old tech, then you might also consider a writing campaign to bring back points and condensers,drum brakes and carbuerators.
 
"And no, Mustang owners are not admitting to being slow, rather, simply stating that for the amount of money the GTO owners pay more, they should be MUCH faster, not those small, barely faster numbers that C&D has posted. It cracks me up that you think you are soooooo fast, yet only so small an amount away from the GT, and for more money. We buy our car, put into it the same amount of money as your stock GTO, and then we blow your doors off."
 
That's pretty funny. I have already shown how a comparably equipped mustang (upgraded interior, larger wheels, 1000w stereo,leather) cost only a little over a $1,000 less. You are claiming that you can get an extra 100 hp and a irs for under $2K. It is that mindset that helps Ford sell these mustangs. BTW, don't forget to wave bye bye to your warranty as you vainly cobble krap onto the mustang indesperation to have a car that can keep up with the GTO remember, the GTO has a 1.3 liter 100hp head start.
BTW, the GTO is MUCH faster. It starts off the line faster and just continues on out of sight. That's why the 0-90 time was almost a second and half faster than the Mustang.

#1781 of 2056 Re: Is there really such a thing as a GT w/ no options? [cobragt] by facts101

Jan 31, 2006 (9:30 pm)

Replying to: cobragt (Jan 31, 2006 8:43 pm)
Yes Ford did a Normally aspirated 385hp 5.4L V8 in the 2000 Cobra R. It was also expensive ($55,000) and at 71.3 horsepower a liter, isn't much more then the GTO's 66.7 hp a liter. BTW, Ford still lost $$ on all 300 they sold that year. http://www.mustang50magazine.com/roadtests/13379/
 
The Cobra R also had no backseat, no air-conditioning and no sound system. No creature comforts. It used the rear fascia of the V6 Mustang.
 
 If I wanted to only go fast for the least amount of cash, I would have bought the Mustang, but as you said the $$ that GTO owners supposedly pay more, they are arguably getting a more refined car with a better interior and better ride, usable backseat. To some people like me performance isn't everything in a car. Thats why I never bought an F body either. Fast cars, but what good is it with their cheap interiors and no refinement!

#1782 of 2056 Re: Is there really such a thing as a GT w/ no options? [tayl0rd] by facts101

Jan 31, 2006 (9:46 pm)

Replying to: tayl0rd (Jan 31, 2006 1:09 pm)
The 2004 GTO beat out the 2004 Cobra SVT in Road and Track July 2004 issue. GTO 1st, Cobra 2nd. The Cobra was the faster car though. http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=1368

#1783 of 2056 Re: Is there really such a thing as a GT w/ no options? [dclark2] by tayl0rd

Jan 31, 2006 (9:48 pm)

Replying to: dclark2 (Jan 31, 2006 9:26 pm)
dclark2, you're all over the place! It's like trying to connect the same pole of magnets! Just when you've got them touching, they FLIP AROUND on you. Why are you harping on the iron block of the GT500? Especially with that forest of pushrods rooted deep in the GTO's block. Have you already conveniently forgotten that the Mustang GT's engine is OHC and ALUMINUM?? There are '05 GTs out there already with more than 500HP at the wheels with a blower.
 
And what makes you think a high stressed NA engine is more reliable to build up than a factory forced induction engine?? Ever heard of FORGED INTERNALS? Much more reliable.

#1784 of 2056 Re: Is there really such a thing as a GT w/ no options? [facts101] by tayl0rd

Jan 31, 2006 (9:54 pm)

Replying to: facts101 (Jan 31, 2006 9:46 pm)
Wouldn't dash stoking appeal be in the same boat as the "gotta have it factor?" Don't be hypocritical.

#1785 of 2056 Re: Is there really such a thing as a GT w/ no options? [tayl0rd] by dclark2

Feb 01, 2006 (12:20 am)

Replying to: tayl0rd (Jan 31, 2006 9:48 pm)
"dclark2, you're all over the place! It's like trying to connect the same pole of magnets! Just when you've got them touching, they FLIP AROUND on you. Why are you harping on the iron block of the GT500?"
You need to read a bit slower and gain some comprehension in the process.
I have said that repeatedly that the engine in the mustang is low tech.Unlike you, I, and others have given examples to back that assertion. You haven't!
One thing I have said is that Ford can't produce a v8 motor that can put out 350hp w/o a blower. Look at their line up- see any v8 motors with 350hp? Nope. I have also said that their motors can't match the performance of an 8 year old ls1. Again, no one can dispute that. I have said that their engineering is subpar, that they can't make a competitive motor w/o a blower. The GT500 iron block supports my argument that Ford lacks the engineering to produce a modern 350hp v8.
Did I mutter, was I unclear? The 4.6 lump in the mustang IS aluminum. So what? It only puts out 300hp! I repeat, it only puts out 300 hp!! Go ahead and throw a blower on it, watch it turn into a recycled beer can.
As you don't care that an iron block will add 150+ lbs to the front of car, you obviously could care less about handling. Me, I'd rather have a fast car with a nice interior and good handling than a nose heavy coupe with a truck axle and the aerodynamics of a parachute. That's why I like the GTO.
I have also said that the only way they can get 350 hp
 
"Especially with that forest of pushrods rooted deep in the GTO's block. Have you already conveniently forgotten that the Mustang GT's engine is OHC and ALUMINUM?? "
 
Your point? You can get a Kia compact with an ohc and aluminum motor. Power and light weight are everything. Too bad the mustang is still trying to put out enough power to beat cars made in the '90's.
 
"There are '05 GTs out there already with more than 500HP at the wheels with a blower."
 
Really? Have their trannies self destroyed as well?There are also GTO's with blowers out there and putting out 600hp. I guess it helps to start with a bigger, better motor.

#1786 of 2056 Re: Is there really such a thing as a GT w/ no options? [dclark2] by cobragt

Feb 01, 2006 (5:23 am)

Replying to: dclark2 (Jan 31, 2006 9:26 pm)
"That's pretty funny. I have already shown how a comparably equipped mustang (upgraded interior, larger wheels, 1000w stereo,leather) cost only a little over a $1,000 less. You are claiming that you can get an extra 100 hp and a irs for under $2K. It is that mindset that helps Ford sell these mustangs."
 
WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT THOSE OPTIONS...WE ARE TALKING ABOUT BASE PERFORMANCE...
As said before, BASE MSRP to BASE MSRP, your comparable mustang is only comparable in YOUR OPINION. We are talking PERFORMANCE, so the interior is irrelevant at this point.
 
And do please, show me where I said that for under $2k I could get 100HP and an IRS. I never said that. I did say that for $1100 you could make the GT faster, I didn't say more HP. More HP doesn't always mean the car is faster.
Get it straight.
 
#2-Once again, I state that Ford made an engine over 350HP NA. Forget the car it was in, they made one..PERIOD.

#1787 of 2056 Re: Is there really such a thing as a GT w/ no options? [cobragt] by cobragt

Feb 01, 2006 (5:39 am)

Replying to: cobragt (Feb 01, 2006 5:23 am)
200 Watt
 
Oh and I like the fact that you keep throwing in how to make it comparable, the GT has to have the 1000 Watt system. WHY?
 
The GTO is only 200 WATTS!!!! The link above shows you.
 
So its NOT comparable even by your terms, for the GT to have the Shaker 1000 system.

#1788 of 2056 Re: Is there really such a thing as a GT w/ no options? [dclark2] by tayl0rd

Feb 01, 2006 (6:04 am)

Replying to: dclark2 (Feb 01, 2006 12:20 am)
... You can get a Kia compact with an ohc and aluminum motor. Power and light weight are everything. ...
 
You're absolutely correct! So WHY do you keep talking as though aluminum is so "high tech?" Who cares if the GT500 has an iron block? The GM folks since they won't have anything else to talk about as they're TRAILING the GT500 around a track all day, everyday. How much do you want to wager that the low tech, iron block, truck suspension, parachute aerodynamics havin' GT500 is going to SMOKE the GTO in every fashion? And I believe the leather covered dash of the concept will be optional. It'll give the dash strokin' GTO lovers more incentive to come over! You keep talking about the power of the LS1 and the current 4.6. Have you forgotten that the LS1 was 5.7 liters??? The new 4.6 in the Mustang GT actually makes 320HP, BTW; just 30HP shy of that mammoth sized 5.7.
 
... There are also GTO's with blowers out there and putting out 600hp. ...
 
Really? Have their blocks exploded or trannies self destr[ucted] or that IRS snapped as well?
 
... I guess it helps to start with a bigger, better motor.
 
It sure does! So I wish you'd stop acting as though the Mustang GT has the same sized engine!

#1789 of 2056 Re: Is there really such a thing as a GT w/ no options? [tayl0rd] by facts101

Feb 01, 2006 (6:10 am)

Replying to: tayl0rd (Jan 31, 2006 9:54 pm)
Hypocritical? Because I wanted a car with a nice interior, comfort, seats and good performance all at the same time? What does that have to do with Gotta have it factor? Yeah ok.

Messages Page 179 of 206

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