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Ford Mustang (2005) vs. 2005 Pontiac GTO

2056 messages,  Last post on May 27, 2009 at 5:34 PM

You are in the Ford Mustang Forum.

What is this discussion about? Ford Mustang, Pontiac GTO, Coupe, Convertible

Messages Page 179 of 207

#1773 of 2056 bottomline: by mikesright

Jan 31, 2006 (2:53 pm)

You guys are talking about two very different cars. Mustang is built for cruising. It wasn't designed to be a GTO beater. It has decent looks apparently (not my taste) , that satisfy its customer base and a middle-of-the-road but certainly not bad engine.
 
GTO is in a different class, kinda like the old Chevelle-Malibu. GM designed it to be roomy and luxurious, as well as being a car that can run down just about anything.
 
The price difference between them is not much. A GTO comes basically loaded from the factory, with leather seating, irs, etc, while the Ford will become much pricer with any options. Sure, you can get a mustang for 25k, but 97% will get options, and a lot of them. This is not accounting for the price markups and discounts right now.
 
If you like a cloth interior and like showing off, take the mustang. If you like sleepers, luxury, and enough torque to rip your head off, go with GTO.
 
Me: I am glad we are finally having muscle cars to debate on, and even though I am a huge GM fan, I am truely grateful for the Mustang keeping musclecars alive. Viva la Camaro 2009!

#1774 of 2056 Who cares? by mikesright

Jan 31, 2006 (3:06 pm)

Who cares that ford supercharges its cars to get horsepower?
 
GM uses more cubes, tunes it's NA cars. Personally, I like GM's main approach, when I bolt on a supercharger or a turbo, b/c I have that tuning, the forced induction will give me more horses. And it's a lot easier to do a bolt-on than Ford's approach.
 
Thats why you see more people running Chevy small-blocks in everything from street vehicles to motor-racing. My Ford-boy roommate even admits this! HE RACES THEM. AND HE LOVES THE MUSTANG.
 
Of course you can rip apart a Ford engine and start boring out cylinders, reinforcing stuff, etc. I guess you should get the point by now, but shortcutting by supercharging or turbocharging isn't the way to go, at least with V8s and V6s....

#1775 of 2056 Re: Is there really such a thing as a GT w/ no options? [dclark2] by tayl0rd

Jan 31, 2006 (6:16 pm)

Replying to: dclark2 (Jan 31, 2006 2:25 pm)
What I was saying was a rebuttal to your misguided statement that Ford can't make power from an NA engine. You said that they can't even make an NA engine as powerful as the old LS1 engine that had 350HP. The 5.4L V8 in the Ford GT is pushing 600+HP. 600 (Ford GT HP) - 350 (old LS1 HP) = 250 (minimum HP the blower has to be adding). Sooo, since you're saying that Ford CAN'T produce an NA engine that makes at least 350HP (the old LS1 output), that would mean the blower has to be pushing AT LEAST 251HP (since you say they can't make as much NA HP, it would have to be 349HP or less for the engine alone)with just 14psi (if that much psi). Don't think so!

#1776 of 2056 Re: Is there really such a thing as a GT w/ no options? [tayl0rd] by dclark2

Jan 31, 2006 (7:40 pm)

Replying to: tayl0rd (Jan 31, 2006 6:16 pm)
"What I was saying was a rebuttal to your misguided statement that Ford can't make power from an NA engine. "You said that they can't even make an NA engine as powerful as the old LS1 engine that had 350HP."
 
Yup, that's exactly what I said.
 
"The 5.4L V8 in the Ford GT is pushing 600+HP. 600 (Ford GT HP) - 350 (old LS1 HP) = 250 (minimum HP the blower has to be adding)."
 
That motor is BLOWN! That truck motor IS available in a truck without a blower. It is rated at 300hp!
 
"Sooo, since you're saying that Ford CAN'T produce an NA engine that makes at least 350HP (the old LS1 output), that would mean the blower has to be pushing AT LEAST 251HP (since you say they can't make as much NA HP, it would have to be 349HP or less for the engine alone)with just 14psi (if that much psi). Don't think so!"
 
It really doesn't matter what you think that modded up blown motor in the GT would w/o the blower. Here are the facts (something that Ford lovers hate).
Ford can't make a v8 that'll pump out over 300hp w/o either using a blower or simply lying about the power! You have failed to give an example of one Ford V8 that can produce 350 hp w/o a blower. BTW, it has been reported in C/D that the upcoming gt500 will have an IRON BLOCK! Just another reminder of how low tech Ford motors are.

#1777 of 2056 Re: Is there really such a thing as a GT w/ no options? [dclark2] by tayl0rd

Jan 31, 2006 (8:27 pm)

Replying to: dclark2 (Jan 31, 2006 7:40 pm)
Wow! Talk about reaching for straws!
 
Ever heard of the 2000 Mustang Cobra R? Boss 429? GT500KR? GT350? The original Mach 1? The Ford 389cid V8? Gimme a break.
 
And an iron block is no more low tech than PUSHRODS!

#1778 of 2056 Re: Is there really such a thing as a GT w/ no options? [tayl0rd] by cobragt

Jan 31, 2006 (8:43 pm)

Replying to: tayl0rd (Jan 31, 2006 8:27 pm)
Thats what I was just about to say.
 
The 2000 Cobra R was a 5.4L that made 385-390HP. NA. That right there proves they can do it, but CHOOSE not to.
 
And also, yeah, the EVO and the STI come with a factory turbo, made for the car...so does the Cobra, and the new GT500, so whats the difference?
 
And actually, the STI is more along the lines of the GTO pricewise. Its MSRP is , $32,995.
 
STI MSRP
 
And no, Mustang owners are not admitting to being slow, rather, simply stating that for the amount of money the GTO owners pay more, they should be MUCH faster, not those small, barely faster numbers that C&D has posted. It cracks me up that you think you are soooooo fast, yet only so small an amount away from the GT, and for more money. We buy our car, put into it the same amount of money as your stock GTO, and then we blow your doors off.

#1779 of 2056 Re: It's in the gearing [tayl0rd] by facts101

Jan 31, 2006 (8:59 pm)

Replying to: tayl0rd (Jan 31, 2006 10:56 am)
Just to name a few Performance V6 engines of 2004 that made the same 260hp or more then the V8 Mustang GT.....
 
G35 with 260 - 280hp on 3.5L V6
350Z 280hp on 3.5L V6
Maxima 265hp on 3.5L V6
Grand Prix GTP 260hp on 3.8L V6
 
BTW Ford GT is twice the price of the Z06, I should hope it makes 95 more hp for $70k more

#1780 of 2056 Re: Is there really such a thing as a GT w/ no options? [tayl0rd] by dclark2

Jan 31, 2006 (9:26 pm)

Replying to: tayl0rd (Jan 31, 2006 8:27 pm)
"Ever heard of the 2000 Mustang Cobra R? Boss 429? GT500KR? GT350? The original Mach 1? The Ford 389cid V8? Gimme a break.
And an iron block is no more low tech than PUSHRODS!"
 
I hate to burst your bubble but iron is low tech. See, iron is a metal, a very, very heavy metal. Now, it is bad to have too much weight in any car, especially the front- bad, bad, bad!
Now, aluminum is a much lighter metal. Lighter is good! Good, good,good! An aluminum motor can weigh over 150lbs less than an iron equivalent.Less weight up front means a better weight balance and better handling.
However, Ford doesn't really care about handling (remember that truck like rear suspension in the mustang?), so they could care less if the car has a 60/40 weight balance. Heck, that might be a bit too much math for the typical Ford buyer to understand!
Very few motors are made out of iron because it is too heavy. Aluminum is the way. Even GM knew this when they made an all aluminum big block for the camaros (and two 'vettes) back in '69. Aluminum is tricky stuff- it isn't as strong as iron, nor can it take heat as well as iron, so it requires some good engineering.
Now, do you you remember what I said about Ford's poor engineering? Do you? Well, unlike the rest of the world's great car makers, the idea of making a high output v8 aluminum motor is out of their grasp. They simply don't know how to make one! They tried with their regular block, but said that they had "durability issues". Gee, I thought that was a ford standard feature!Now, they are going to put a bot anchor of a motor in the gt500.
So, that is why iron blocks are old tech. And no, you won't find them on a Pontiac, Porsche or any other performance car, for that reason. If you think that iron blocks aren't old tech, then you might also consider a writing campaign to bring back points and condensers,drum brakes and carbuerators.
 
"And no, Mustang owners are not admitting to being slow, rather, simply stating that for the amount of money the GTO owners pay more, they should be MUCH faster, not those small, barely faster numbers that C&D has posted. It cracks me up that you think you are soooooo fast, yet only so small an amount away from the GT, and for more money. We buy our car, put into it the same amount of money as your stock GTO, and then we blow your doors off."
 
That's pretty funny. I have already shown how a comparably equipped mustang (upgraded interior, larger wheels, 1000w stereo,leather) cost only a little over a $1,000 less. You are claiming that you can get an extra 100 hp and a irs for under $2K. It is that mindset that helps Ford sell these mustangs. BTW, don't forget to wave bye bye to your warranty as you vainly cobble krap onto the mustang indesperation to have a car that can keep up with the GTO remember, the GTO has a 1.3 liter 100hp head start.
BTW, the GTO is MUCH faster. It starts off the line faster and just continues on out of sight. That's why the 0-90 time was almost a second and half faster than the Mustang.

#1781 of 2056 Re: Is there really such a thing as a GT w/ no options? [cobragt] by facts101

Jan 31, 2006 (9:30 pm)

Replying to: cobragt (Jan 31, 2006 8:43 pm)
Yes Ford did a Normally aspirated 385hp 5.4L V8 in the 2000 Cobra R. It was also expensive ($55,000) and at 71.3 horsepower a liter, isn't much more then the GTO's 66.7 hp a liter. BTW, Ford still lost $$ on all 300 they sold that year. http://www.mustang50magazine.com/roadtests/13379/
 
The Cobra R also had no backseat, no air-conditioning and no sound system. No creature comforts. It used the rear fascia of the V6 Mustang.
 
 If I wanted to only go fast for the least amount of cash, I would have bought the Mustang, but as you said the $$ that GTO owners supposedly pay more, they are arguably getting a more refined car with a better interior and better ride, usable backseat. To some people like me performance isn't everything in a car. Thats why I never bought an F body either. Fast cars, but what good is it with their cheap interiors and no refinement!

#1782 of 2056 Re: Is there really such a thing as a GT w/ no options? [tayl0rd] by facts101

Jan 31, 2006 (9:46 pm)

Replying to: tayl0rd (Jan 31, 2006 1:09 pm)
The 2004 GTO beat out the 2004 Cobra SVT in Road and Track July 2004 issue. GTO 1st, Cobra 2nd. The Cobra was the faster car though. http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=1368

Messages Page 179 of 207

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