Last post on May 27, 2009 at 4:34 PM
You are in the Ford Mustang
What is this discussion about?
Ford Mustang, Pontiac GTO, Coupe, Convertible
#1696 of 2056 Re: Who said anything about magnificent comfort? [cobragt]
Jan 24, 2006 (4:08 pm)
"Seriously, people need to stop assuming things, or saying things like the Mustang doors just snap in or clip on. GTO owners: HAVE ANY OF YOU TAKEN APART A MUSTANG DOOR YET?"
Gee, do you think a dealer would let me take apart a door? Get real!
"Because if you have, then you are just simply lying. The doors are held on by 4 bolts on the bottom, and 2 bolts on either side. (Hinge, and lock area) Thats 8 bolts."
The outer edge of the GTO door panal alone has 11 screws. Then are the ones behind the trim. Sorry, mustang loses.
"The interior is also leather, all the seats, and the shift knob."
Nope, obviously you don't know what the difference is between leather and pleather. The mustang has leather "seating surfaces", the GTO has ALL leather, seats front AND back, shifter, wheel, AND console. If you can't tell that the Mustang lacks that, then Ford did a good job of going cheap there.
Solid-rear axle...? Cheap? Whats that about? Do a little digging and you will see that many great racecars have been built with solid rear axles.
Ooh, sorry, but I don't drive on a race track, do you? The roads where I live aren't perfect, like most of the US. When one wheel on a solid axle hits a bump, the camber on the other wheel is affected and there you go a- skittering.
If you think that having a solid rear axle makes for better handling, give the folks at Porsche,BMW, Ferrari or Lamborgini a call; let them know that they are all wrong with their suspension design.
Actually, thats part of a true muscle car. Muscele car? That term was applied to american made cars that had a high power to weigh ratio with gave good acceleration, and shoddy suspensions which made them straight line cars. Yes, the mustang is a muscle car. It even has a solid rear like all those 60's car. Too bad it doesn't have a irs like a sports car.
"I also own a 2003 SVT Cobra, with an IRS. Ever hear the term wheel-hop? Well, thats what you get with an IRS. Its not all its cracked up to be."
Ever heard of steering? Ever heard of axle chatter? Ever heard of Ford wanting to put an irs on the next gen of mustang? There are many reasons why no sports car uses a solid rear. If mustang owners don't know, more power to them.
Jan 24, 2006 (8:30 pm)
Your comment about irs is entertaining at best. Because the Mustang does not have irs, its automatically bad, is that right? As I mentioned in a previous post, I own both the Mustang GT and the GTO. I'm a Pontiac guy, an officer of our Pontiac club. I've probably owned more GTO's and high performance Pontiacs than you have owned cars. However, I'll take the handling and fun to drive of the Mustang GT over the GTO any day of the week. It's not what you call it, but the total execution. For you to make these comments tells me that you have spent little time in the Mustang GT. I like my GTO, but it's not God's gift to handling. By your reasoning, that would make all irs bad. I'll agree with your comments that the interior of the GTO is all leather and of better quality than the GT. I agree the seats of the Mustang are not all leather either. I get tired of hearing all the cheap shots about the solid rear axle on the Mustang. That's where I take offense. I gues I'm just a Pontiac guy and Mustang owner that "just doesn't know". By the way, to all you guys, who in the hell cares how many screws are in the door panels of either car. Let's quit this negative stuff and start talking about the positives of both cars.
#1698 of 2056 Re: dclark2 [jpiatchek]
Jan 24, 2006 (8:44 pm)
#1699 of 2056 lack of irse is always a sore spot, eh?
Jan 25, 2006 (8:34 am)
When the fact that the Mustang lacks an irs, mustang owners counter with arguements about launching and how solid axle gives comparable handling.
Then, when reminded that solid axle gives inferior handling on less than perfect roads, and that NO sports car has a solid axle, what do they do?
Well, rather than come up with some sports cars that do, or explain how the movement of one rear wheel throwing the camber off the other wheel, they always counter with vague statements like:
"However, I'll take the handling and fun to drive of the Mustang GT over the GTO any day of the week. It's not what you call it, but the total execution."
Hey, that's an opinion! If you think the mustang handles better and has "better execution", that's your opinion, your entitled to it. But the fact is that NO sports car has a solid axle because an independent rear can give better handling. I know this, you know this, even Ford knows this. That's a fact.If you disagree, post some sports cars that do have a solid rear. The upcoming Challenger and Camaro will have an IRS and from I have read, so will future mustangs. For now, the mustang has more in common with a sport truck than a sports car.
Black and white statements like "Your comment about irs is entertaining at best. Because the Mustang does not have irs, its automatically bad, is that right?" imply desperation on your part. I have never said that anything makes the Mustang bad. I have said that the Mustang is made cheaper, and that the cheapness shows up in both the interior and the suspension design. As such, I have given examples to support that. I am not saying the Mustang is bad.
#1700 of 2056 Re: lack of irse is always a sore spot, eh? [dclark2]
Jan 25, 2006 (9:24 am)
Can you supply some definitive evidence that the GTO handles better than the Mustang, please?
#1701 of 2056 Re: lack of irse is always a sore spot, eh? [dclark2]
Jan 25, 2006 (10:03 am)
"But the fact is that NO sports car has a solid axle because an independent rear can give better handling."
But one can't make the assumption that everything WITH an IRS is, by default, a sportscar. Case in point: the GTO.
The GTO is a lot of things; but a sportscar is NOT one of them.
You also stated (correctly) that an independant rear can give better handling. The operative word being "CAN". An independent rear DOESN'T GUARANTEE better handling; it just has the POTENTIAL to offer better handling.
Again, it all comes down to execution. A solid rear may not have the potential of an IRS, but it is entirely feasible that a well executed solid rear design CAN offer comparable (if not better) handling than a mediocre IRS design.
#1703 of 2056 Re: lack of irse is always a sore spot, eh? [dclark2]
Jan 25, 2006 (12:00 pm)
Hmm... Based solely on the link you provided, the GTO only bested the Mustang in STRAIGHT LINE performance and breaking, which those 245/45 tires on the GTO had more to do with it than better brakes. The Mustang had better road holding and out-maneuvered the GTO despite the dinky 235/55 tires. It was nearly 2MPH faster in the lane change, 64.7 vs. 62.9.
Nope. It's that extra 100HP that gets the GTO around a track faster, not "superior" handling abilities.
#1704 of 2056 Interior
Jan 25, 2006 (12:43 pm)
Well if GM is finally using screws on their interiors thats great! It sure beats the bubble gum and paper clips they used on the Regal GS I used to own (not that much of a stretch), the rear door panels were coming off and there was a sticky substance all over them. All interiors should use screws or something that holds them permanently in place. My 87 5.0 LX was screwed together and never rattled after 120k. The interior of the Bullitt I own now is not put together as well. I personally would rather see a screw head here and there and not have any rattles!
#1705 of 2056 Re: lack of irse is always a sore spot, eh? [dclark2]
Jan 25, 2006 (1:21 pm)
So, let's see, for $8500 more for the Pontiac you get 100 more HP, a bit more rear seat room, and marginally better speed/performance. That's it. There's even less trunk space in the Pontiac, which is already pretty small in the Mustang.
By comparison, if you added 100 HP to a Mustang GT, it would kill the GTO, which, ummmm .... still looks like an insect.
PS. You can, if you so desire, add 100+ HP to a Mustang GT by supercharging it, for about $7k, e.g., Cal Labs and Rousche.