Last post on May 27, 2009 at 5:34 PM
You are in the Ford Mustang
What is this discussion about?
Ford Mustang, Pontiac GTO, Coupe, Convertible
#1512 of 2056 Re: Check post 126 here, posted picture of 180mph GTO [rorr]
Sep 08, 2005 (8:06 am)
"Stock" The 2005 Mustang V8 has no governor, drag limited to almost 150mph, very good! More then I will ever need/use.
I never thought about the car on jackstands, good point. GTO as well as Mustang speedos are quite accurate today.
Correction on my part....Monaro HSV GTS with 400hp has a closer ratio Tremec gearbox, steering/suspension/brake upgrades. Holden's HSV is the equivalent of Ford's SVT or Mercedes AMG, etc. It's a superior performance car to the GTO we get here! Faster and handling wise. It runs in the 12's for 1/4 mile stock. Z06 territory. Reason? Better gearing. I believe 3.91 instead of 3.46 axle shifter too. It does 175 to 180mph top end. It may have aero upgrades. It also has dual digital zone climate control, sunroof, extra pod mounted gauges, Navigation and other features we don't get here. It costs a lot more too. Aussies and England get better GTO we don't here.
Can't wait to see that GT500 with nearly 450hp for 2006.
#1513 of 2056 Re: Check post 126 here, posted picture of 180mph GTO [musclecars4me]
Sep 08, 2005 (8:20 am)
Now that I think about it, I'm not sure about the jackstands angle. Even with traction contol "off", sometimes the controls aren't fully 'off' and the system may not like reading the rear wheels going 180mph and the front wheels going 0 mph. I've never actually tried this with a TC equipped vehicle so can't say for sure how well this works.
The shorter gearing (3.91 vs. 3.46) in the HSV may actually help it to attain a higher top speed also. If the (ungoverned) GTO runs into an aero wall short of the peak hp in 6th gear, a shorter rear gear may put it the peak hp closer to the top speed. You can see this phenomenon in cars where the top speed is not attained in the top gear.
'Better' GTO? In my opinion, a 'better' GTO would be one WITHOUT alot of those extraneous doodads, a decent cloth interior, manual seats......and maybe $2k cheaper/100 lbs. lighter......
#1514 of 2056 Re: Check post 126 here, posted picture of 180mph GTO [rorr]
Sep 08, 2005 (8:38 am)
A cheaper version would have increased sales. Usually cars that come almost fully loaded don't always sell that well, example, 1995-1999 Aurora. It only sold 50% of what GM predicted. When they redid it for 2001 with cheaper priced ($5k less) base V6 and optional V8, it DOUBLED it's sales! Too little too late for Olds.
Holden sells a cheaper version of the Monaro with a V6, not just here. It was the 3800 V6. Maybe if they could have offered that std, but then you would have people up in arms complaining that it's also not a real GTO, because real GTO have V8 only! Can't please everyone.
I agree maybe if they could have done a cloth GTO, manual seats, make Blaupunkt an option etc and other features optional, that would drop the price $2k or $3k. Keeping same drivetrain.
#1515 of 2056 Re: Mustang Vs. GTO, both good in own ways [graphicguy]
Sep 08, 2005 (8:43 am)
For the total package of $30k I paid I am impressed. Esp when I got the drivetrain of a Corvette for $15k less. Didn't have to wait months for it. Very solid, good riding, comfortable car. Price difference was only about $2k for me. Primary difference is GTO is more of a heavy, but refined sport, luxury beast w/ European flair and roadmanners (think poor mans bmw 6 series). Mustang is lighter but cruder american muscle car.
They both offer great bang for the buck, Mustang is cheapest 300hp V8 car you can buy, the GTO is the cheapest 400hp V8 car.
This GTO is a modern and well engineered platform, 75% new structure for it's 2002 debut! It was based on the 1997 Holden Commodore structure only from the front to the A pillar. Everything from A pillar and rearward the Monaro body structure was new/unique for 2002. It is 50% stiffer then the 1997 Commodore chassis. 84 new structure pieces for 2002 alone !! They didn't just take a commodore and make it into a 2 door, all new! Don't forget the Stang is 3 yrs newer, 2005 vs 2002 monaro. If you want to compare apples-apples compare '04 GTO, 2yr old chassis to "04 Mustang's 24yr old Fox chassis. Regardless they did a GREAT job with the stang!
Interesting tidbit is that the Destination charge to the customer on the GTO via Aussie land is only $700. The American built Mustang has a $625 destination charge, go figure. Lutz claims GM is still profitting on the American GTO. 2005 sales are right on target with no incentives or employee pricing!
If I could I would buy the other 2 cars, the V8 Charger and V8 Stang to go with my GTO!
#1516 of 2056 Re: Mustang Vs. GTO, both good in own ways [musclecars4me]
Sep 08, 2005 (9:14 am)
Can't argue that both cars offer the bang for the buck.
My guess is, that GM is "hiding" some of the shipping costs in the MSRP. It's hard for me to fathom that it's not a lot more expensive to ship a car from Australia than it would to ship one anywhere from/to the U.S. or Canada.
Charger I could probably do without. No doubt there will be takers to those who want a muscle sedan. I've only seen a couple on the road. Offering only an automatic tranny and what I consider bland interiors kill the deal for me on the Charger. SRT version would be interesting, but if I'm going to spend that kind of money, I'm looking at a Corvette.
I try to go to the Detroit International Auto Show every year. Don't always make it since it's frigid there in January. But, that's where I first saw the current Mustang and GTO.
I hope the '07 auto show has the '08 GTO to gander at. That might peak my curiousity. Also would like to see what Chryco will put on the stand for the (hopefully) upcoming Challenger. However, by that time, the GT500 will be out.
#1517 of 2056 Re: Mustang Vs. GTO, both good in own ways [graphicguy]
Sep 08, 2005 (11:35 am)
Also the Nissan 350Z has a cheaper destination charge from Japan then the Mustang here. $560 vs Mustang $625. Unless Nissan is hiding it in the MSRP too? It's got to cost more from Japan then USA as well!
I always go to the NY (Manhattan) Auto Show every year in April about 1hr south of me. The problem with the challenger is that the LX chassis, 300C etc is heavy, 4000+ lbs, as high as 4200lbs. they need to trim weight/size to compete with Mustang. Challenger will show up at same time as new GTO, late 2008. Thats a long time, esp. with gas prices going up and up.
You wonder how well these powerfull V8 cars are going to keep selling in leu of the ever increasing gasa prices, esp a GTO wihch only offers a V8. Charger and Mustang at least offer cheaper more fuel efficient V6 engines as std equip.
#1518 of 2056 Did you notice Exhaust-charger or lack of it sound? [graphicguy]
Sep 08, 2005 (11:41 am)
Not sure if you noticed this, but to me the Charger seems to have a WEAK exhaust note for a 340hp 5.7L V8. Some guy was revving it hard in a parking lot trying to draw attention to himself. I have heard V8 SUV with better stock exhaust!
The 300C is very quiet, aimed more at luxury end. My brother in laws barely has any hint of V8 sound in his 300C.At idle doesn't even sound like anything.
Mustang/GTO is much better/louder/deeper.
#1519 of 2056 Re: Mustang Vs. GTO, both good in own ways [musclecars4me]
Sep 08, 2005 (12:03 pm)
I think Japanese makers amortize their shipping costs from those models that ship to the U.S. over 100s of thousands of vehicles. Whereas, GM has higher shipping costs because, to my knowledge, the GTO is the only model they're shipping from Australia. And, it's shipping just a very small fraction of vehicles compared to those that come from Japan. Same goes for those that ship from Europe. They also ship 100s of thousands of vehicles that they can amortize the cost over a much higher volume of cars.
I've yet to notice any exhasut notes coming from any 300Cs that I've seen on the road. But, that's a different car with a different purpose. You are correct. The Hemis (with the exception of those in the Dodge Ram) don't have the beautiful exhaust notes that either the Mustang GT or the GTO bring to the table.
#1520 of 2056 Re: gto vs. mustang too boring, how about gto+gt vs SKYLINE [tayl0rd]
Sep 08, 2005 (1:17 pm)
The dual exhaust is so small that it doesn't scream GT to me. There are umpteen cars on the road today with a V6 and dual exhaust. Doesn't stand out.
#1521 of 2056 Re: Mustang Vs. GTO [rorr]
Sep 08, 2005 (1:21 pm)
But even if Pontiac did the EXACT same thing Ford did, the GTO wouldn't have sold anywhere near like how the Mustang did. And that's because they were (and ARE) DIFFERENT cars. One was a pony car (the original) and the other was a muscle car (arguably the original....at least the original intermediate). My point is, the public had a much higher opinion of "Mustang" than Camaro, or GTO. I mean, GTO was last produced in the mid 70s. The F-body wasn't selling well. IMO there isn't much GM could have done to sell 50-60k GTOs. Like I said a year ago, it should have been the G8 or even Grand Prix V8 or something.