Last post on May 27, 2009 at 4:34 PM
You are in the Ford Mustang
What is this discussion about?
Ford Mustang, Pontiac GTO, Coupe, Convertible
#1239 of 2056 The Debate continues...
Aug 09, 2005 (6:48 pm)
my comparison to BMW was that both have an understated type of style and performance. BMW's is elegant, timeless; myself, most people I've talked to and EVERY single article I've read say the GTO's is too bland and lackluster. (But as you say, these are just subjective opinions.) Unlike Ford with the Mustang, it seems GM took a great performing Australian sports sedan and gave it a famous American muscle car name. Its styling seems like an afterthought, and like the Dodge Charger, only representative of the classic model in name. Since the last GTO was made in 1974, how can a 30 year gap be a great history of quality and performance? Both the Mustang and the BMW have been around for most of the last three decades, so both have become household names. Not only does the new Mustang have award-winning styling, but it seems as if Ford has eliminated the Pony’s flaws and greatly accentuated its strengths.
As for the stylistic comparison to other more basic Pontiacs/GM, I'm not sure why this seems to offend some GTO owners. I have no problem knowing my 2005 GT looks remarkably like a more common, basic V6. I’m willing to bet the vast majority of objective observers regardless of their age will say the GTO looks very much like a Grand Am, Cavalier, etc. As for their being another 189,999 people on the road with 2005 Mustangs, I could care less. It’s a great car and its sales numbers are representative of that. I don’t base my buying decision on what others are buying or not buying. I can use the aftermarket to personalize my car and the large numbers of other Stang Drivers guarantee available parts and comrades-in-rubber burning.
Rorr handled the 1968/2005 Mustang copy comment exceedingly well….much better than I could at least. I agree though the GTO should command attention. It is a great performing, rare car. Whether Mustangs are technically Classics are not is simply semantics. I and thousands of Americans would die for a Non-Classic Mustang GT, Shelby, GTO, or Charger.
Bland cars like the Civic, Accord, and Camry sell well, because they are reliable "automotive appliances." Their buyers do not expect much performance or wow factor; they just want dependable, cost effective transportation. There are many sport coupes with style, however. Scion is ALL style if you talk to young buyers as are certain new options from Pontiac and Saturn (Solstice and Sky). Most sports car buyers, however, want performance with looks. This is the connection that I find lacking in the GTO and abundant in the Mustang.
I agree the GTO offers a great deal of performance for a great price. No one can dispute it will beat a stock Mustang GT, but the difference is not significant to me. Nor is it to every comparison I've read. But again, to be fair, give me 3-4 grand to even the price delta and a "supped" Mustang will outperform a GTO.
#1240 of 2056 Re: gxpgtodanman [rorr]
Aug 10, 2005 (3:55 am)
But if that's the case, then NOTHING replaced the Camaro and, as I've pointed out, that simply means that GM abandoned that market COMPLETELY to Ford. Sad.
Gee, think this may have happened before? Hint: B-Body.
#1241 of 2056 Re: gxpgtodanman [gxpgtodanman]
Aug 10, 2005 (3:57 am)
You are right, style does sell in some cases.
However IMHO there is more to a car then just styling.
Ever since I was, oh I dunno, in 6th grade, I have always said I'd rather have a car that looks like a junker but goes fast (sleeper) than a car that looks "cool, yo" but goes slow (I think we know who this is).
#1242 of 2056 time to move on, agree to disagree [vppreacher]
Aug 10, 2005 (4:16 am)
This GTO is true to form in name and function. Big V8 engine in a 2 door rear drive midsized rebadged coupe. Original GTO's were an option on Tempest/Lemans. They looked just like the other pontiacs in the lineup of that era. So why do people complain this GTO looks too much like other Pontiacs? People need to go back to the 1960's early 1970's. GTO is a household name too. Anyone that knows anything about cars has heard that name. The new Mustang is nice but a new set of flaws came with the 2005 Stang, like defective gas tanks, radios, etc. I believe they have been corrected. I personally would NEVER buy a first year american car.
I don't buy mass produced cars like Camry-Accord-Mustang etc. I don't want to have what everyone else on the block does. My GXP is a company car, didn't buy it. But to each their own!!
Lets get one thing straight, the V6 Mustang does NOT have performance, it's looks only, just like the ones on the Hertz rental lot, my family Acura is faster/better performing and better built. Only the V8 model has performance. The scion with the Toyota dealer installed Supercharger is FASTER then V6 Stang !! And not much more $$, $21k. Accord coupe will blow the doors off V6 stang too. 5.9 seconds with Stick. In fact it will run with the V8 Mustang !!
"But again, to be fair, give me 3-4 grand to even the price delta and a "supped" Mustang will outperform a GTO."
But the GTO already has better interior, better seats, better build quality, usuable backseat, IRS, etc. Getting C6 Corvette drivetrain for $15k less. It would take a lot more $4k to fix that in mustang. It's not all about going fast. It's quality too. Mustang is a pony car. A cheap car to go fast. Just like F bodies were. GTO is more of a luxury performance car that still out performs the stang in every category according to MPH , C&D etc. Everyone knows the GTO won the C&D comparo where it counted except the ultimate 1 point loss because of "Got to have it" factor, LOL!
I thik we have talked this to death already, time to move on. In the End we can AGREE to DISAGREE then.
#1243 of 2056 Re: time to move on, agree to disagree [gxpgtodanman]
Aug 10, 2005 (8:38 am)
Accord coupe will blow the doors off V6 stang... In fact it will run with the V8 Mustang !!
Umm... Don't think so. Not even the previous generation GT.
#1244 of 2056 Accord does run with V8[tayl0rd]
Aug 10, 2005 (9:53 am)
"Umm... Don't think so. Not even the previous generation GT."
I think so. Accord V6 coupe is same or faster then previous generation Mustang GT V8.
1999 to 2004 Mustang V8 ran high 5's to low 6's
2003 and on Accord V6 coupe ran high 5's.
Good drivers race.
#1247 of 2056 Cheap Mustang...the last word?
Aug 10, 2005 (12:52 pm)
"The new Mustang is nice but a new set of flaws came with the 2005 Stang, like defective gas tanks, radios, etc. I believe they have been corrected. I personally would NEVER buy a first year american car."
I like buying good American cars and had no problem buying a first year model in the case of the new Mustang. Don't think that the new GTO is without its own problems. Check the boards…and good luck with parts shipped from Australia.
"But the GTO already has better interior, better seats, better build quality, usuable backseat, IRS, etc. Getting C6 Corvette drivetrain for $15k less. It would take a lot more $4k to fix that in mustang. It's not all about going fast. It's quality too. Mustang is a pony car. A cheap car to go fast. Just like F bodies were. GTO is more of a luxury performance car that still out performs the stang in every category according to MPH , C&D etc. Everyone knows the GTO won the C&D comparo where it counted except the ultimate 1 point loss because of "Got to have it" factor, LOL! "
“Cheap” is a relative term...I’m sure my used Mustang Premium GT Convertible with Interior Upgrade Package is valued at more than your used GTO in the current market...even with your Corvette drive train and supposedly better quality...and these were two cars that were similar in price when new...and the performance charactersitics were not that much different to sway me away from a Mustang GT.
I’m not sure what GM was thinking when it re-badged an Australian built car with the GTO name. It's a nice car for sure, but The GTO appears to be a band aid approach to this market until GM brings back the Camaro...a car that was available in different models, has a long and respected North American history, and could compete with the Mustang across the board of this market.
Aug 10, 2005 (1:31 pm)
" I thik we have talked this to death already, time to move on. In the End we can AGREE to DISAGREE then."
True dat! In the end, we both love our respective hot rods and can easily compete with cars costing twice as much. But isn't this whole thread about a Goat vs. Pony debate? I must say though that the comparison of a 2005 Mustang GT with a V6 Accord is suspect. Not only is a similarly equipped Accord thousands more, the Mustang is nearly a second faster in 0-60. The Accord wins on finish and reliability, but the Mustang is the performance and styling king. If a stock GTO outperforms a stock Mustang GT (which it does by all of a 2-3 tenths), then a stock Mustang GT decimates the Accord. Let's stick to the same standard.....
If the GTO was such a great car, sales numbers would support that. Yet the opposite is true. I think most people (who aren't going to the track) don't consider performance numbers the end all, be all to buying a car. And the performance differences between the GTO and Mustang GT are not huge.
The Stang has much more than "WoW Factor"...C&R says it best...
"So what was the Mustang's appeal? Well, we're suckers for a great body, and the Mustang looks a lot better than the GTO. Disparage the Mustang's '60s styling if you must, but get ready to face the reality that the GTO's banality is pure '90s. Furthermore, the Mustang wins because when you take it in, as a total package, the Ford makes better sense. Pick apart the Mustang's laundry list of simple components, and it will seem to be less of a car than the GTO, but drive the Mustang, and it feels like far more than the sum of its parts. That is the draw of the Mustang: It makes the most of what it has, doesn't suffer for what it doesn't have, charges you less than you'd expect, and beckons from the showroom until you come and take it home."