Last post on May 27, 2009 at 5:34 PM
You are in the Ford Mustang
What is this discussion about?
Ford Mustang, Pontiac GTO, Coupe, Convertible
#1224 of 2056 Re: Honda to Ford.. [vppreacher]
Aug 08, 2005 (6:00 pm)
"The GTO defiitely has an understated, "sleeper" style. The problem is unlike a BMW M3 or 330, it doesn't have the name or impressive history for quality and performance (nor the large pricetag!)"
The GTO marque definitely has THE NAME and a impressive history for performance. This 2005 is the fastest/most powerfull stock one ever made. As for quality, the last GTO was 1974.
"The GTO just looks too much like a rebadged Cavalier or Grand Am."
The Mustang looks like a copy of 1968 Mustang, not too original. I'm glad they didn't make GTO retro. Imagine a redone 1974 Nova/Ventura Gto? Argh.. Anyway as we all know it's a rebadged Holden Monaro which is a car that has been compared to the BMW M5 in terms of performance. Check C&D Sept 2001 issue. It's also been compared to Mercedes SL55 AMG, also pretty impressive. My 2005 generates a lot of attention, people at lights, walking buy as I'm driving, car shows etc, asking me questions, saying NICE CAR.
#1225 of 2056 Re: Honda to Ford.. [gxpgtodanman]
Aug 08, 2005 (7:16 pm)
the 2005 gto is no sleeper. i wish it was a sleeper ! it's incredible how much attention the car gets - people shouting from other cars, parking lots, opposing traffic. i actually like the more-sleeper/2004 styling way better but it's worth it to get the LS2. i've got 1500 miles on the car, mostly highway.. in city traffic or parking lots at least 20 random people have either shouted good things or asked about the car. my son tells me time after time about other folks on the highway staring at the car and then pointing it out to someone else in their car.
meanwhile i do enjoy checking most all the new mustangs i see, trying ignore the v6/rental ones, and hoping to see a really beefy one soon, an SVT/garter-snake, whatever they call the fastest mustangs. after my GTO's warranty is expired (ahem) i plan to bring the GTO to the 1/4 mile track - maybe the fastest new mustangs will be out by then, i'd like to line up against one.
#1226 of 2056 Re: Honda to Ford.. [vppreacher]
Aug 08, 2005 (9:19 pm)
I followed a similar path to vppreacher after going through a few Toyotas.
I considered the new GTO, and could have definitely been happy with it, but the rest of the family gave it the collective thumbs down based on styling alone. The impressive performance attributes of the GTO were not enough to win me over.
We purchased one of the first GT Convertibles (Redfire Metallic with Interior Upgrade Package) and could not be happier with our decision.
I applaud Ford for building an American car that appeals to the masses. Ford offers the Mustang in various models, trim levels and engine configurations that appeal to young and old and a variety of income levels. It's called marketing and is the bread and butter of the automotive industry.
The new Mustang certainly has handling and performance characteristics not seen in previous generations. Drive one, you'll like i!. This is not to put a knock on the previous Mustangs as Ford has been on this run for 40 years. The Mustang is an American icon whether you like it or not.
#1227 of 2056 Re: Honda to Ford.. [lassen54]
Aug 09, 2005 (5:19 am)
" The Mustang is an American icon whether you like it or not."
So is the GTO. The original Muscle Car. All of them were V8 only. No 4 or 6's.
"Drive one, you'll like i!."
I did drive one, pretty nice car, but there is more to a car then just looks. IMHO the GTO road nicer, more luxury like, more comfortable seats, usuable back seat for family and it's interior was nicer then Stang. Basically it's a 4 passenger Corvette for $10k - $15k less.
#1228 of 2056 Re: Honda to Ford.. [gxpgtodanman]
Aug 09, 2005 (6:13 am)
"The GTO just looks too much like a rebadged Cavalier or Grand Am."
"The Mustang looks like a copy of 1968 Mustang, not too original."
Well, consider this: I was at a car show this weekend (sponsored by the Mustang Club of Austin) which had many, many '65 thru '70 model Mustangs. They still look good. Heck, there were even a couple of 1st gen Camaros in attendence. They still look good.
Been to many car shows featuring Cavaliers or GrandAms?
The point being - having style which evokes a classic is generally regarded as being a good thing. Having style which evokes a 10 year old entry-level car is not.
If the standard reply to "the GTO looks like a GrandAm" is going to be "oh yeah? The Mustang looks like a '68 fastback", well then I guess all I can say is "yep, sure does. Ain't it great?"
#1229 of 2056 old Mustang NOT classic [rorr]
Aug 09, 2005 (7:52 am)
"Been to many car shows featuring Cavaliers or GrandAms? "
What does that have to do with Mustang vs Gto? I have been to many shows featuring the 2004 and 2005 GTO. Sorry, but it commands a lot more attention then you think. I have had just as many people coming up to me at the shows as the 2005 Stang owners..
"The point being - having style which evokes a classic is generally regarded as being a good thing"
Sorry the old Mustangs are not classics and either are the old GTO's. They are antique/collector cars. A Classic is a Generally high-priced when new and was built in limited quantities car made in 1948 or prior !!
The Mustang was a high production car for the masses, thus it will never be termed a Classic by the Classic Car Club of America. Most likely the GTO never will be either.
Time will tell with the Mustang retro design. Look at what happened to Fords Retro Tbird. Hot seller with big dealer markups, "Got to Have" then by the 3rd year they couldn't give them away, thus $10k off MSRP and they finally cancelled it.
#1231 of 2056 gxpgtodanman
Aug 09, 2005 (8:31 am)
Okay, now you're going to parse words.
The point being that the old Mustang 'look' (generally regarded as a 'classic look' by most non-GM owners) is generally regarded as a 'good' thing. Or at least a few hundred thousand people in the first year seem to think so.
On the other hand, a 'look' which generally brings to mind a mid-90's GM sedan is generally regarded less favorably. You can spin this all you want, but (and here I quote a GM owner of past Pontiac musclecars and current owner of a C5 Corvette), "Ford absolutely killed Chevy with the new Mustang. It makes me sick that GM just rolled over on 'em with the Camaro."
Well, you could argue that the GTO is not the Camaro. In most respects it's a much better car. BUT, GM cannot attract large numbers of young first time buyers looking for a performance automobile at a reasonable price with a GTO. The Camaro had that ability. To replace the Camaro in their lineup, and to fill this requirement, they have the Cobalt (featured prominantly as the 'little brother' to the Corvette in Chevy marketing). Yep, that's right. Chevy replaced the Camaro with the Cobalt. And it is precisely BECAUSE GM 'rolled over' to Ford that we are left comparing the Mustang to the GTO, rather than the Mustang to the Camaro.
Tbird comparison - are you seriously putting forth the opinion that the new Mustang is just a flash in the pan, destined for market withdrawal in just a few years? Interesting.
#1232 of 2056 Re: gxpgtodanman [rorr]
Aug 09, 2005 (9:10 am)
And to further your remarks, the Mustang has been a perennial best seller from day one. It would be foolish to think that the Mustang, of all cars, is a "flash in the pan."
And on top of that, in every review that you read about the Mustang, the reviewer basically sums it up with everything that was "wrong" with the Mustang has been made "right" with this generation.
In my opinion, if GM had made a retro Camaro/Firebird from the same period, it would've been extremely hard for folks to decide whether to buy a Mustang or one of the GM twins.
gxpgtodanman also comments that the Mustang's design isn't original (or something to that effect). How is the GTO's design original? It looks just like its siblings. A Mustang will never be mistaken for anything other than a Mustang. That can't be said of the GTO.
#1233 of 2056 Re: gxpgtodanman [rorr]
Aug 09, 2005 (9:59 am)
The Fbody was cancelled because it wasn't selling well. Sales kept declining year after year. Where as Mustang sales stayed even or increased. So I can't totally blame GM for killing Fbody.
The Cobalt is NOT replacing the Camaro, it's replacing the old Cavalier. The Cobalt SS outperforms the V6 Mustang. Runs mid to high 14's. The facts are that the young first time buyers are going into the Front wheel drive compact sports scene, which the Cobalt SS should do very well in. They aren't buying F body or Mustangs anymore or I should say as well as they used too. The avg age on Mustang buyers is higher then it was 10+yrs ago. All of the V8 Stangs I have seen are older people. Same with GTO's, except me.
My mistake on Mustang to Tbird comparison. I think at some point Stang sales will cool off. Probably still be good for 100k+ a year though.