Last post on May 27, 2009 at 4:34 PM
You are in the Ford Mustang
What is this discussion about?
Ford Mustang, Pontiac GTO, Coupe, Convertible
#1207 of 2056 The GTO made a believer out of a Mustang GT aficionado...
Aug 04, 2005 (4:41 pm)
I am ...or may I say I will be...,(yeah that sounds better) the soon to be owner of an "05 black on black GOAT. The sales manager called me today and told me the car was ready for PDI and had NOBODY putting their behind in this particular machine. I can't wait since I am out of town and go home for the weekends.
Here is my story: I had a 1985(225 hp) and a 1994 Mustang GT Cobra (245) and I have always been a Ford-Mustang guy. I recently decided to get a sportier car than the one I was driving, a 2000 Jetta 1.8T. I think I forgot the way a true muscle car feels and drives and the sense of power with the exhaust sound... I went to the nearest Ford dealer to get my Mustang since the newedly desing is impecable nice. I test drove it and felt the power once again. When I went to crush some numbers the dealer that I was reffered to by a buddy of mine change their attitude when we were talking about cutting some slack on the MSRP and incentives and rebates which they were non for the GT.
I was mad at the fact that they know they have a gold mine and pretend that Mustang aficionados like me will pay 2K over invoice and just be a Laydown deal. I like shopping for cars, I like making the sales personel work for their commision and I do understand that dealers have to make money but I will fight the very last penny I could on this one.
I saw the '04 GTO when it came out on the street. Bland. Said nothing. I have never had a GM car in my life and it was considered sacrilege in my family to do so. Then, I saw a movie called "The Last Ride" with one of my favorite actors, Dennis Hopper and I told my salef I should give it a try just to see it in a dealer nearby in "close caption" after the first glance at close distance and after seeing the interior I said "I gotta get me one of these!". The next day I went to the Buick,Pontiac dealer and had a test drive. Sorry for my family and Mustang fans. This car is something else. It put a smile on my face just starting it. The exhaust sound is incredible, the engine growls ans kind of tilt the car when you rev it. The interior was far superior than the new GT, at 70 MPH the car was doing way under 2000 RPM at 6 gear.
I cut a deal with the dealer paying $31700 for the car plus the military incentive ($500.00) so really $31,200 and even if I had to pay full MSRP on this one unlike the Mustang dealer there was no markup. I can't wait until Saturday. Is there a way to post pictures in this forum? Sorry if I sound way too excited but I guess you guys understand the newbies...
I had to wait a couple of weeks for this one but i will bet it will be all worth it. I am waiting to break in the engine...oh sweet!!!!!!! Rev it up guys!!!
Aug 04, 2005 (7:05 pm)
Congrats on your new GTO! They are nice rides. I took an opposite tack though.
Ford, like every manufacturer, has some dishonest and disreputable dealers. The Mustang is such a runaway hit some are definitely taking advantage of consumers. However, if the market will bear a higher than MSRP price, than that unfortunately is what many people will charge.....and pay.
I fell in love with the new Mustang's combination of modern and classic styling, great performance, and total package. I shopped around until I found a dealer who was honest and fair. I ended up having to wait 7 weeks for my order, but I got it $1,000.00 below MSRP (~$27,000.00). I didn't get the automatic or the overpriced Shaker 1000. For me, the 4 grand difference in price, thousands less in cost of ownership, larger trunk, and unique styling clinched the deal. No argument that a stock GTO beats a stock Mustang GT, but that 4 grand extra can even those odds with a little help from Vortech, Steeda, and Eibach.
#1209 of 2056 Re: Dealers [vppreacher]
Aug 05, 2005 (3:45 am)
Oh man trust me, I still love the Mustang GT. It is an awesome car, no doubt about it and it delivers. PERIOD. I always complained about the Mustangs' interior ever since I had my older versions. I in fact still own one of the cars (1985) but is back in the island (Puerto Rico) and I have no intentions of bringing it here to GA. It gives me a reason to go back and hit the beach for a couple of days, is a nice ride.
The feel for each car is different but I am in no case a street racer, I just like the feel of a true muscle car here in the States with my GTO and back in the island with my GT. I will disagree with anybody either trying to put the Mustang GT or the GTO down. They are an American Tradition. The Mustang has won the 10 best cars in C&D, Won the opinion (Not the performance) of this months auto mobile mag comparo. I only wish that when they came up with the Saleen version, it wold have been in the mid 30's but they went way i the Mid 40's for one.
There you go. It's only a dream to know you are in a 400HP car...you either have to pay over 50 grand when the GT500 comes out or pay 48K for a Saleen, a Corvette for 47K or a CTS-v for 51K.
Why wait until saturday, I am going to the dealer today!!!!!
#1210 of 2056 angular momentum
Aug 05, 2005 (12:08 pm)
it is awesome how the goat tips to the side when you goose the engine while parked/neutral.. you see this same effect on dragsters - i understand that because of this, the springs on one side of the dragster have to be stiffer than on the other. all my Z28s used to do this noticeably just like my 05 goat. but c'mon, mustang V8s must do it too, to some extent, eh - it's not like the mustang engine is mounted transversely, eh?
#1211 of 2056 Re: Dealers [blasto]
Aug 05, 2005 (2:47 pm)
Good points all!
The GTO's performance, sound, and interior are impressive. I just wish the styling was better. While the 2005 is way better than the 2004, I still find the styling (like the new Charger) to border on the bland. I know GM and Dodge could have figured out a way to take the modern performance and combine it with some retro styling features. The GTO is way better than the Charger, but neither evokes an evisceral feeling of "muscle" in me.
Oh yeah...the Saleen is a rip, the Shelby GT500 is sick, and the more any American car manufacturer makes a great car the better!
#1212 of 2056 Re: Shelby Cobra doesn't take care of Vette, not Z06[stang22] [442man] [sputterguy] [stang22]
Aug 06, 2005 (4:11 pm)
That's a joke.
Aug 07, 2005 (6:35 am)
Considering the Vette looks to be about 700 lbs lighter with 25-50 more horsepower, I don't see how the Shelby will beat it in most performance categories. To be fair though, why would you compare two stock cars with drastically different prices? It's comparing apples to oranges and makes no sense. You don't hear Mustang owners arguing with GT owners or Z06 owners-to-be with GTO owners. The Mustang and the GTO are much better sports values for the money, but they can't compete with the higher priced cars.
Just like if you want to be fair and even...give a Mustang GT owner $3-4 grand for performance upgrades and then run it against a GTO. In the end, a car is more than the sum of its parts and that's why the Mustang is currently the rave. Most people could care less about .3 going 0-60 or a second or two in the 1/4 mile. It is sublimely good in all categories and more than any other car on the market captures the old muscle car feel with modern fit and finish.
#1214 of 2056 Demographics
Aug 08, 2005 (8:44 am)
I was having a discussion this weekend with my cousin about the new Mustang and what it means for Ford. Before I go any further, I'll point out that my cousin currently owns a C5 Corvette m6 and has owned a number of big block TransAms from the very early 70's. He currently races a '66 Shelby GT350 in vintage racing.
His opinion is that GM just rolled over and died with the F-bodies. He also thinks Ford hit a grandslam with the new Mustang. While he acknowledged that the GTO has it all over the Mustang in pure straightline performance, the Mustang kills GTO in style, and in this segment style matters. No kidding; this has been discussed endlessly in here.
But what hasn't been discussed is the fact that the STYLE (coupled with good performance), is bringing a lot of people (YOUNG people) back from foreign nameplates to Ford. In other words, many people will be buying Fords, 10-15 years from now who might otherwise be buying Toyotas and Honda because of the Mustang. This is not the case with the GTO. Most GTO buyers (not all certainly, but most) were already GM fans. And most GTO buyers are NOT kids/young adults. Yeah, I know, supposedly 'large' numbers of BMW owners have switched to the GTO. What, 50-100? What is that compared to 10k-20k people buying a Mustang instead of a 350Z? (Or the 25k-50k buying a V6 Mustang instead of a Chevy Cobalt?)
The point being that Ford is helping themselves out (moreso than GM) in the LONG run by bringing in a lot more young buyers.
#1215 of 2056 Re: Demographics [rorr]
Aug 08, 2005 (9:48 am)
Even with the new Mustang and it's success this year Ford is still losing market share, just like GM to the foreign rivals of Toyota/Honda. It's going to take more then just 1 car to reverse that. Historically the Mustang was always a good seller for Ford to begin with. I'm a American Muscle car fan. It's good we have 3 choices for now. As for the Mustang killing the GTO in style, Looks are subjective, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I personally like looks of GTO. The GTO interior/seats is nicer/higher quality.
Remember the Cobalt SS supercharged does outperform the Mustang V6 for similar price and gets better gas mileage. Simple pulley swap on SS and it's running low 14's.
From what I have seen most V8 Mustang buyers are not kids/young adults either. Most of the youngers ones are buying V6 Mustang. High insurance rates for a V8 Mustang if you are young. Just like F bodies. GTO has one of the lowest insurane rates I have ever seen for a 400hp car. It's not much more then my 200hp family 4 door sedan. I am in my early 30's.
Don't forget, all GTO's come fully loaded with the 400hp LS2 V8, there is no base V6 models. The gas guzzler tax on automatic. That certainly doesn't help GTO sales. Enjoy what you bought.
Charger, Stang & GTO are all good choices for people. At least we get 3 choices for now. It hasn't been this good since the early 1970's.
#1216 of 2056 Re: Demographics [gxpgtodanman]
Aug 08, 2005 (10:33 am)
I'm sure that, overall, Ford is still losing market share (like GM). And granted, a single car will not reverse that. However, Ford IS selling a car in large numbers which has no Toyota/Honda/etc competitor to at least help to reverse this trend. GM is not.
Yes, style is subjective and I'm sure that (to your eyes) the GTO looks good. But, my impression is that you were ALREADY a GM buyer and Pontiac aficionado so GM didn't really GAIN anything there. To help regain (or stop the slide with) market share, GM must win over buyers of other nameplates. The performance of the GTO certainly has what it takes. But if owners of other buyers were turned off by the styling of the GrandAm and GrandPrix, they're not going to give the GTO much of a chance.
The Cobalt isn't just competing with the Mustang V6; it's also going up against a whole slew of other FWD coupes, some with similar or better performance. But a V6 Mustang offers something the import badges DON'T: RWD and 'classic' styling.
Most of the youngers ones are buying V6 Mustang.
EXACTLY. What they are NOT buying are yet another FWD sporty coupe. And what they are NOT buying are GTO's. And when these younger kids 'graduate' from their V6 Mustang, Ford has a better shot at keeping them in another FoMoCo product. This is my whole point. With the Mustang, Ford is bringing in many more young buyers who previously would never have considered a Ford. Who cares if these young'uns are buying V6's instead of V8's? GM, on the other hand, is trying to scavenge sales from other nameplates for the more 'financially established' buyer.
IMO, the GTO succeeds more by keeping existing GM owners at home while the Mustang attracts more new customers to Ford.