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Automotive News & Views Mystery car pix....
23642 messages, Last post on Nov 11, 2009 at 7:24 AM
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Replying to: lemko (Nov 26, 2008 11:52 am)  ?
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Replying to: andys120 (Nov 29, 2008 12:49 pm)
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Replying to: andys120 (Nov 26, 2008 3:44 pm) To reciprocate, Ford dealers had a car line called the Monarch, which was basically Mercury-level cars. The Monarch line was replaced by the Edsel in 1958, but the Edsel was so disastrous that it was revived as the Monarch II for 1959! Fords got a bit bigger in 1960, and for 1961, Mercury moved way down in status...more like a '58-60 Edsel than a '57-60 Mercury, so suddenly there wasn't that big a difference between a Ford and a Mercury. As a result, the Monarch was dropped after 1961. I guess Mercury held onto the Meteor line longer though, because while a top-line Galaxie was priced about the same as a top-line Monterrey, there was a much wider disparity at the lower end. GM did something similar with Pontiac in Canada, making it more of an equal to Chevy, rather than a step up. That's partly because in Canada, they paired the divisions up. I think it was Chevy-Oldsmobile and Pontiac-Buick. But also partly because in those days, there were stiff tariffs on imported cars and parts. I think the Oldsmobiles and Buicks were imported in those days, but Chevies were built in Canada. While Olds/Buick were viewed as more of a luxury car, they could get away with having a tariff slapped on them. But to avoid the tariffs and save as much money as possible, the Pontiacs were more home-grown. The midsized and compact cars were little more than Chevy II"s and Chevelles with different grilles and taillights slapped on, but the big cars, where there was more profit, were more of a hybrid. They'd take Chevy frames and drivetrains, and put Pontiac sheetmetal and interiors on them. I guess it was sometime in the 1970's that this trend stopped. They started importing real Pontiacs to add to the home-grown models in the late 1960's, which really must have been confusing. By the mid 1970's, I think they were all on the same wheelbase. Must have been really confusing having both a Laurentian and Catalina in the lineup. Or a Parisienne and Bonneville. I guess Ford/Mercury started running into the same problem. I googled some pics of 1970's Meteors, and by that time, it looked like they were based on the longer Mercury, rather than the shorter Fords. At that point, why bother?
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Replying to: andre1969 (Nov 29, 2008 3:43 pm)
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Replying to: bumpy (Nov 29, 2008 4:50 pm) As for Chrysler in Canada, I'm not sure exactly how they operated. Did they even have Plymouths up there? I've seen cars badged as Chrysler Valiants...basically a Dodge Dart with a Valiant grille. And I've seen Dodge Crusaders...Plymouths with Dodge grilles. More recently, I've seen Chrysler Intrepids. Is there really a need for a Chrysler Intrepid, when they had the Concorde? Or by that time, did they not sell Dodges in Canada anymore? Definitely a strange market, at least when you view it through United States archetypes, I guess.
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Replying to: kyfdx (Nov 29, 2008 12:55 pm) |
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Replying to: andre1969 (Nov 29, 2008 5:04 pm) I wonder even more if it was worth it to make the engineering changes necessary to mount a Pontiac body over a shorter Chevy Chassis and drivetrain as was done by GM thru at least the 1970s, IIRC. That seems like a lot of trouble to serve the small Canadian market (about the size of California?). What was the reason for not using real Pontiacs?
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Replying to: andys120 (Nov 29, 2008 5:47 pm) My understanding of it though, is that the way import tariffs were at the time, it was still cheaper for them to make these "home grown" Pontiacs than it was to import the real thing from the US. Also, it might not have been as difficult as it seems to get the Pontiac sheetmetal on the Chevy frames. To use an example, in 1969 a full-size Chevy was on a 119" wheelbase, while Pontiac Catalinas were on a 122" wb. Bonnevilles and Executives were on a 125". However, they were still all on the B-body platform, so the actual passenger cabins were the same size. I know with the Bonneville, they tacked that extra 3" of wheelbase on towards the back. It's really noticeable on the 4-door cars, as the little piece between the rear wheel opening and the back door is 3" longer on the Bonneville/Executive. But on a 2-door, that extra 3" in the rear quarter, ahead of the rear wheel opening, isn't as noticeable. However, another tell-tale sign is where the C-pillar is, in relation to the rear axle. I'm not sure though, where the extra 3" is, on a Catalina versus a Chevy. If it's ahead of the firewall, then to make the Canadian Pontiacs, they would have just needed to shorten the front fenders and hood by 3", behind the front axle. If they just took another 3" out in back, then they would have had to modify the quarter panels, and shorten that piece that goes between the trunk lid and the rear window. Other items, like the doors and interiors, would have most likely been a direct swap. In 1971, when GM redesigned its big cars, I think the Canadian Pontiacs actually used the longer Pontiac wheelbases, so no sheetmetal mods were needed, but they were still using Chevy engines. I imagine the 1959-1964 period might have been a pain though, because Pontiacs and Chevies were more unique then. Chevies used an X-frame, shared with Buick, while Pontiacs used a perimeter frame, shared with Oldsmobile. That definitely had an effect on stuff like the floor pans, but maybe it didn't matter so much when it came to swapping sheetmetal? |
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 Besides the make/model/year of this Presidential Limousine, do you know which President used it? |
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