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Mazda MAZDA3, Volkswagen GTI, Honda Civic, Car Comparisons, Coupe, Hatchback, Sedan
#642 of 1379 Re: should i buy this car [fasterthanyou]
Jan 31, 2007 (11:40 am)
This is what I was talking about. I mean how predictable is for a guy that bashes VW and recommends a Honda to say something like that? 100%.
Actually, the GTI is at the top of my list for my next car. How predictable for a VW fanboy to think that anyone suggesting a non-VW must be anti-VW.
A VW poorly made? You probably never sat foot in a VW your entire life.
Had a 2001 Jetta 1.8T WE. It was a lousy car - broken parts, bad ABS, broken electricals, bad AC, etc.
Drove the 06 GTI in 05 before buying my 06 330i. Let me put it this way, after the test drive the salesman 1. was sure I raced often, 2. told me nobody had taken him on a GTI ride that much fun before and 3. was shocked beyond belief that I didn't want it.
In late 06 I took out a 4 doot GTI for a few hours and found that car fit me and my fiancee's lifestyle better. The extra doors, the space seemed different and the car felt lively, fun and light after 9 months of driving my behemoth 330i.
So, as of right now I've got about 1 year left on my 330i's lease and the GTI is the front runner, with the 335i as the second choice and A3/Mini as the darkhorsea and the 1 series as a big time wish. I like the packaging, space, engine, etc of the GTI.
The GTI 4 door is fun. But it's expensive to maintain/operate and I count on it having the same quality as my previous German cars (2 BMWs, 1 VW): lousy.
#643 of 1379 Car and Driver "10 Best"
Jan 31, 2007 (11:45 am)
The Mazdaspeed3, as is the GTI, is on Car and Drivers "10 Best" for 2007.
#644 of 1379 Re: should i buy this car [fasterthanyou]
Jan 31, 2007 (12:13 pm)
Actually, blueguydotcom's comments have been much more mature than some others going around here. Interior quality (which the VW has) does not equal a well-built and reliable vehicle, or a good vehicle for a 17 year old. I take him quite seriously. He doesn't need to "loosen up" and I'm not sure why we keep coming back to personally-directed comments.
If he gets 12 MPG in a V6 SUV that is supposed to get 50% higher than that, he's driving REALLY hard and fast. I'd worry about how that kind of driver would do with more speed that he's not used to controlling. If he likes VW and won't drive past the warranty, I'd suggest the Rabbit.
#645 of 1379 Re: should i buy this car [kiddoljs]
Jan 31, 2007 (12:27 pm)
Allright kid here it comes. Hopefully you are still reading this thread and havent been turned off by what many of pretty much everyone here is saying.
For the honda buff, you'll always see lots of reliability stats, cost to own stuffs and a lot of other things that you may deem useless especially once you discover that *gasp* vw warranty is in fact longer than hondas and many of the vw bashers here are bringing up past vw models and not any of the newer ones, such as the new gti which you are considering. You have no doubt noticed a much more sublte way to bash the car, in which it is not explicitly said 'i think vw's suck, but consumer reports says so, so i'll leave it at that.'
The mazda buffs will tell you that the mazda 3 and the speed 3 are the most unflawed and most rewarding vehicles to drive in their respective price range. Just remember that these folks are probably biased too and if something greater were to come out, they would finally understand what it would mean to prefer a car over another one even if that other car out performs it. The mazda is a good car, a very good car even but the overshowering of greatness is kinda cheesy sometimes.
And then the vw buff. The one who supports duetschland like if it was the only carmaker that ever existed. Bear in mind that this person will also ignore ANY claims that vw have not had reliabilty issues in the past, and can seem a bit haughty, but nonetheless a bit more passionate it seems about thier vehicles than the others...(it leads one to wonder that if the reliabilty of a toyota, honda or mazda were to falter a bit, if their fan base would remain as strong as vw has remained? Hmm dunno. maybe yes but maybe no. And that rhymes which is what makes it awesome. )
All in all i'd say that everyone here is going on and on about all the wrong things. If i had the chance to drive a gti when i was 17 and was going to get a good deal on it, i'd go for it. Its great fun. Great fun without being to over the top, for as many mazdaites have pointed out, it is not the absolute best performer in its category, but nonetheless very very fun. Will it be the most reliable? Its chances don't look as good as some of the other vehicles in the segment, but having personal experience with its brethren (an 07 rabbit) things are looking at least brighter than before. Will the insurance be higher? Yes. But if you are looking for a sporty compact, chances are that the insurance will be more expensive than the more mild mannered versions of the car, and more expensive than the cars that they precede in each vehicles company line up.
But that the price you pay for having a sport compact.
Look up the insurance figures yourself, some of what has been posted is a little extreme and has been tailored to each persons driving record and NOT yours. Look it up yourself and THEN factor it in.
I would recommend the gti. It didn't win auto of the year for sucking. It makes a nice middle point for performance. It may not be as ultra precise or high wrung as the si, or as gutsy as the mazdaspeed 3, but it looks great, has a great resale value and it has great power off the line and delivers better mileage or at least comparable mileage with other cars in its class.
If you were to get a honda, more power to you. I used to have an 06 civic ex. I loved it. Great fuel ecomomy , smooth engine, roomy and it handled very well...and everyone else thought so, because everyone else has one. That is one major problem with hondas; don't expect to be original. I think they are great great cars and i consider myself a honda and vw fan, but i won't fail to recognize the flaws of both. You probably wont have many problems with any honda you get, but they also are not without their lemons. (i.e. my civic had broken vanity visors after six months, and i have yet to have any real issues with my vw.)
As far mazda goes, you face less of the identiy loss that honda offers, but by no means are you being ultra orginal. The 3 is quite the handler, and if handed to me i would be happy with it, but sometimes its undiscovered greatness is a little off putting for me at least. You may find it different though.
Look it all boils down to this. You have the opportunity to get a great car for a good price despite not having ultra high mileage and having higher than average insurance costs. I would reccomend you to do it for any one of these cars, granted that you would still be getting the good deal that it seems you are getting. But the fact that its a gti which does run a little pricey, makes it very sweet indeed and i think you should not pass it up man. Good luck with your decision and happy driving.
Jan 31, 2007 (12:34 pm)
That is one major problem with hondas; don't expect to be original.
It's a mass produced car. Don't expect to be "original" in any mass produced car. If you're talking about a Veyron in some podunk place like Oklahoma, sure you'll be a one-of-a-kind. But a GTI is just a Civic in terms of numbers sold. Actually more golfs are sold than civics by a wide margin worldwide.
#647 of 1379 Re: GTI is original? [blueguydotcom]
Jan 31, 2007 (12:53 pm)
Come on blue guy don't be silly; you know what i meant. Obviously they are all mass produced cars, no one is questioning that. An yes by a WORLD WIDE marging the golf has the civic beat. But the golf has been around longer and is much more popular in europe than it is here in the states. And in all honesty when you think about how common a car is the average person, such as this teen in question, probably isn't worried about worldwide sales, and more worried about what he'll see on the road. And the fact of the matter is that you are more likely to see many more civics and accords than you will a rabbit, gti or a passat. I hate when people get all technical. 'oh well worldwide the sales are bigger'. God grief! Think about the context in which someone is speaking for once. You think i don't know that they are mass marketed?
Oh and seeing as how although it may not technically be the segment leader, the gti did singlehandedly start the hot hatch thing. Thats a known fact. So yes, you can call it orginal. Maybe not rare or scarce, but orginal yes.
#648 of 1379 Re: should i buy this car [eldaino]
Jan 31, 2007 (12:54 pm)
Post 645 was very fair and balanced.
I am currently looking to buy one of these three cars to complement my Subaru Legacy wagon as I want to have a fun car.
I did have a MkIV Golf when I lived in the UK several years ago and it was reliable but dull to drive. I am currently steering towards the GTi at the moment (but this can easily change as all 3 cars are good).
Regarding reliability of the VW I would say the following ;
1) VW's newer models which were released in 2005-2006 (new Passat, Rabbit and Jetta) seem to have better reliability ratings than there previous models. It is worth looking at CR and other sources to see if these newer VW's are, more reliable rather than relying on old, and potentially outdated data/perceptions. Manufacturers can get better (or worse) over time.
2) I read somewhere (can`t remember now) that Japanese cars were the most reliable with 1.1 faults per car over a 3 year period. American cars had approximately 1.6 faults per car and European cars had 2.1 faults. So the real difference is that, on average, European cars (essentially German cars) have one extra fault over a 3 year period than Japanese cars. Depending on the fault I would say this is not a huge deal when comparing Civic to GTi.
I agree that VW reliability has been an issue in the past and is still at least a little worse than the Japanese but someone in an earlier post said VW reliability was terrible. That is over stating the "problem" since you are seeing an improving picture in CR, 1 extra fault over a 3 year period and the fact that VW is the best selling brand in Europe.
They would not be the best selling brand in Europe, where Europeans spend much more on their average car than Americans (and therefore expect more), if they had a truly terrible reliability record.
#649 of 1379 Re: should i buy this car [guy1974]
Jan 31, 2007 (12:59 pm)
Thanks guy. Agree with your post whole heartedly. Good point about europeans spending more time in their cars as well. I wonder how cr gets its relaibility numbers, i figured they'd send something to the owners, but being one of the 'fairly' few new rabbit owners i have not really heard anything from them, but from other automotive rating companies asking to rate my rabbit for them. Good post!
#650 of 1379 Re: should i buy this car [aviboy97]
Jan 31, 2007 (2:45 pm)
> So, you would say the Mexican built VW's are more reliable then the American built Honda's?
If you are referring to the GTI, the GTI is made in Germany.
#651 of 1379 Re: should i buy this car [eldaino]
Jan 31, 2007 (2:58 pm)
"And then the vw buff. The one who supports duetschland like if it was the only carmaker that ever existed."
Germany is not the only car maker, is the only good car maker.
Let me clarify something. I am not a VW fan, I am fan of good cars regardless of their make. I want the best car for the money regardless of who produces it. It just happens that in this segment under 30000 VW is practically untouchable. People in Europe know this and they have a much larger palette of choices than we have here...still best sales go to VW. Note that VW Passat beats the European Honda Accord in sales, which there is the same car as Acura TSX here. A VW Passat is chosen over Acura, while here we have people taking things so far that they will compare an Acura with a BMW, which is insane. I hope car buyers here will become more educated about cars and be able to judge without having their vision blurred by the ridiculous ratings found in Consumer Reports. Hopefully nobody will have to hear things like: VW doesn't have the build quality of a cheap brand like Honda in the future.