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Mazda MAZDA3, Volkswagen GTI, Honda Civic, Car Comparisons, Coupe, Hatchback, Sedan
#1340 of 1379 Re: torsion beam rear suspension [eldaino]
Oct 25, 2007 (9:44 am)
"According to Brit magazines, the better Civic Europeans dream of is the multi-link-rear sport sedan privately imported from Japan!"
"which ones? all the recent ones i have read are NOT talking about the jdm type r (the sedan you mentioned) but about the torsion-beamed hatch that is exclusive to them. (europe.)
i think the type r from japan would fare horrible in europe, its suspension is tuned way to much for track use to be a daily driver for most."
"We were bitterly disappointed to discover that the new (Euro) Civic Type-R isnít as polished as the Golf GTI..."
"The saloon bodyshell has been made lighter yet more rigid, with extensive use of aluminium, and adhesive bonding instead of welds. As a result the much bigger íshell tips the scales just 1.8kg heavier than the Integraís, yet is 50 per cent more rigid.
Once on the move this sense of rigidity is all- pervading. Thereís no sneeze-factor in the steering, no slouch in the suspension or slop in the brake pedal, and certainly no squidge in the Bridgestone RE070sí sidewalls. Consequently your slightest twitch is translated into immediate response. Itís an uncompromising car with a firm, physical ride, yet the damping is well controlled and it copes well with mid-corner bumps.
Traction is excellent thanks to the standard helical limited-slip differential, and thereís only the slightest hint of wheelspin on a dry road, even over the sharp-edged crests along our test route in south Wales."
"...includes all import costs...Thatís around £5000 more than the UK Civic Type-R, but such is the gulf between the watered-down experience offered by the hatchback and the full-strength fury of the saloon thereís little sense in making a direct comparison. Perhaps youíd be better looking upon this import-only Civic as a four-door NSX-R, for it possesses much of the supercarís spirit."
"...superior in almost every other way"
"A limited-slip differential, absent from the European Type R, sends more torque to the outer wheel in a corner..."
"Another welcome revision is the use of double-wishbone rear suspension, improving ride quality and handling. This is in addition to a 50 per cent boost in body rigidity. As a result, the four-door Type R is a joy to drive. Its ride is firm but comfortable, and turn-in is exquisite, with heaps of grip and the nose never pushing wide."
"the £11,900 price tag undercuts the inferior UK model by a massive £5,715."
Oct 27, 2007 (9:32 am)
Anyone see that the 2008 Mugen Si will start at over $29,000!! LMAO! Who's gonna pay for that?!?!?
#1342 of 1379 Re: Mugen Si [aviboy97]
Oct 27, 2007 (11:54 am)
Those Acura TSX drivers who ran out of ways to trim down its heavier-than-Accord curb weight
#1343 of 1379 Re: Mugen Si [creakid1]
Oct 27, 2007 (12:13 pm)
A 200hp Civic with a body kit, and slightly upgraded suspension that says "Mugen" on it for $29,000? Please. Your better off buying an S2000 leftover with rebates and dealer discount.
Nov 07, 2007 (8:54 am)
The latest edition of Consumer Reports lists 2 VW's. The Passat (V6) no longer recommended because of worse reliability. The VW GTI - enough data to say they're unreliable. VW Strikes again. And these are made in Germany.
#1346 of 1379 turbo4 GTI FWD vs VR6 TT AWD vs turbo6 1-series RWD
Nov 08, 2007 (7:59 am)
"But the suspension isnít that supple. The BMW gets pitched around on any surface thatís less than perfect, so the steering requires constant correction, which limits your confidence in the car. It doesnít truly come alive Ė instead, it feels slightly numb and disinterested."
"...not as involving as the TT, with constant movement from the suspension and steering which is lacking in feedback."
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/grouptests/212103/volkswagen_golf_gti.ht- - ml
"Plus, the Golf is light to drive, easy to see out of and well laid out inside, all of which helps to make it effortless to live with.
So can it really be as exciting to drive? In a word, yes. The suspension is every bit as well set up as the Audiís, delivering a near-perfect blend of ride comfort and handling ability. The steering wheel isnít only great to hold, but provides more detailed feedback than the BMWís. And although the front-drive layout means the Golf doesnít put its power down as well as its rivals, itís superbly balanced, responsive and entertaining."
"...better body control than BMW"
"The trouble is, there is no turbo to beef up mid-range torque, so its in-gear times werenít as good as the Golfís...What lets it down is the transmission, which doesnít like low speeds. Itís jerky, then surges forward suddenly as the clutch bites. The system isnít as mechanically involving as a manual box, either. Yet once up and running, the S tronic is magnificent Ė as a passenger, the only way to detect shifts is to watch the driverís fingers pull the paddles or listen to the powerplant."
Then down shift then, if you want more burst & still retain smoothness.
"Itís sharp and inspires confidence. The steering is better than the BMWís, and helped by the fact itís lower to the ground. The Audi feels more planted and secure on the road. It turns in hard, grips well and is more informative than the 135i and Golf. Weíd specify the £1,150 optional Magnetic Dampers, though. They work brilliantly, not only making the TT even more dynamic to drive, but boosting absorbency in the softer setting. Without them, the ride is not as relaxing as it could be."
#1347 of 1379 Mazda3's bro (C-1 Focus) vs Civic's bro (hatch w/ Fit-like beam suspension)
Mar 09, 2008 (5:10 pm)
vs Rogue's twin (Quashqai) vs Peugeot's own 308
The C-1 Focus matched the Civic for best handling but provides better ride! & it's the only one in this group not being criticized for lack of steering feel!
"Out on the road, the Ford feels the most relaxing to drive, thanks to the engineís fuss-free nature Ė it just seems to get on with the job of transporting you from A to B as easily as possible. Yet thereís much more to the car than this. The model has always been renowned for its driving dynamics, and the new version is no exception.
This all-round ability is what makes the Focus such a great family choice. The blend of ride and handling is a prime example. Itís not quite as firm as the Honda and deals better with potholes, but itís just as focused and balanced through corners. Perfectly weighted steering and a crisp gearshift add to the package."
"In terms of handling, thereís little to choose between the Honda and Ford. Both are incredibly composed and enjoyable, whether eating up motorway miles or tackling country lanes."
-: some drivers find the speedometer is obscured by the wheel; steering is a little short on feedback."
"There are few criticisms of the carís handling. The steering lacks feel, yet itís fluid and direct, allowing for precise turn-in. Body control is taut Ė impressively so, given the Nissanís tall ride height. As a result, the Qashqai is agile and reassuring."
"As with its opponents, the 308 provides a decent balance of ride and handling. But it doesnít quite grip as well as the Focus or Civic, and although the steering is meaty, it lacks feedback. The Peugeot is composed through corners, yet the dampers can be a little jittery over rough surfaces, and itís not as engaging to drive as its rivals. It is smooth and refined Ė a reading of 69dB at 70mph is much quieter than the Focusís 72dB Ė but the 308 doesnít have much character or charm."
At similar price, Civic's more equipment, room & mpg edges the C-1 Focus as the winner in this ECONOMY car test here. I'm sure all the cheapskates will agree.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/grouptests/218052/ford_focus_v_rivals.ht- - - ml
#1348 of 1379 Re: Mazda3's bro (C-1 Focus) vs Civic's bro (hatch w/ Fit-like beam suspension) [creakid1]
Mar 09, 2008 (6:05 pm)
Problem is, Honda doesn't send the Civic three door over here, and I wanted a hatch(the same reason I passed on the 1 Series). The Civic Type R would have been on my short list- no question:
#1349 of 1379 Re: Mazda3's bro (C-1 Focus) vs Civic's bro (hatch w/ Fit-like beam suspension) [roadburner]
Apr 04, 2008 (5:26 pm)
This Europe-only Civic hatch is indeed handsome & cool looking! Just like the original Scirocco/Corrado. But like those old VW's, it's tiny & only got torsion-beam rear suspension.
While today's Scirocco is heading into the direction of Civic by having multilink rear suspension & (try to?) look like the '92-95 Civic hatch, which even has multilink in the front as well!
click the 4th picture
But by today's standard around here, the Focus, Mazda3, Rabbit/GTI, Civic, Impreza, & even top-end Corolla all have multilink rear, just like Mini & BMW.
More likely, this Euro hatch Civic belongs to the little B-class cars w/ torsion-beam rear: