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Hatchbacks Mazda3 Mazdaspeed3 vs. VW V GTI vs. Civic Si
1379 messages, Last post on Oct 01, 2009 at 10:54 AM
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Replying to: creakid1 (Jun 21, 2007 7:55 am) I only own a 2005 Mazda6, brother and best friend own Mazdaspeed6's. I work for a Mazda dealer for a few years now. Nope, I guess I know nothing about Mazda's. Try reading over 1000 posts I have made about Mazda's, or ask people here if I know what I'm talking about! I think you are not sure what "fish tailing" means. Your rear swaying side to side while propelling yourself forward. How does a FWD vehicle do that?
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Replying to: vviley (Jun 20, 2007 8:22 am) I am referring to how the Mazda6 handles in comparison to others in it's class. Not Infiniti, S2000 or Civic. The Accord does not handle all that well, in comparison to the Mazda6. And I'm thinking (don't hold me to this) that the Mitsubishi Evo could out handle the Mazda6 There is no question the EVO will out handle the Mazda6. No contest. I am sorry for continued talking about the Mazda6, I know this is not the thread for it. |
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Replying to: aviboy97 (Jun 23, 2007 7:31 am) A few years. Let's see, that's after the birth of Mazda3 & Mazda6, both of which had the suspension derived from the German-designed Focus & Mondeo, respectively. You want to know about Mazda's dark history? & No, I'm not talking about going bankruptcy due to the early rotary... "I think you are not sure what "fish tailing" means. Your rear swaying side to side while propelling yourself forward. How does a FWD vehicle do that?" During teenage years, once I was test driving my friend's 1st-generation FWD 626 at around 50mph. The back-end hopped suddenly for a very short duration when the short-spring rear suspension used up the travel as I did an abrupt lane-change test w/ the adjustable shocks set to soft. So that "hop" made the car fishtailed. & as I kept trying to correct it by countersteering, it wagged the tail a few more times & became worse so it got off the road on an uphill. Then the car flipped several times & landed upside down. My first reaction was, "why is car not as roomy as before?" Then in 1990 when Mazda named the 323 as Protege for the first time, Road & Track mentioned about its ultra-long rear suspension travel -- at 8.9". So I got interested & test drove it from a dealer. As I trailed throttle when cornering at about 30mph, it also fishtailed. Except that this time, the long rear springs did not used up the travel, so I counter steered & brought it back barely in time. The salesman was too scared to recommend another model for me to try until it fits. Anyway, I was too naive & believed that this oversteer problem can be allevieted simply by bumping up the rear tire pressure. (The culprit was that the early short-transverse-link design caused excessive camber change that no amount of toe-in from the TTL could compensate.) So I did ended up getting the car. Boy, was I wrong. Countless number of tail-wags have sharpened my skill. Even today, the only way to straighten the oversteer from this low-tech Japanese suspension is to step on the throttle. Even the less-fishtail-prone Escort version need to apply this methed (per Car & Driver). But it was only after I bought the car did Car & Driver mentioned about Protege's tailwagging "heart in the mouth" moment on fwy ramps. Today, I'm still keeping it as a toy to do "spin out"!!! Today, Mazda still retuned the German-platform Mazda3 to fishtail more than the MkII Focus/S40. I can wag its tail a bit during abrupt lane change at freeway speed, but not on the MkI Focus ST or the new S40 turbo. W/o DSC, the Mazda3 can be dangerous in the wet. See what the experts have experienced: http://www.msnusers.com/BrunoLuong/04caroftheyear.msnw
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Replying to: creakid1 (Jun 23, 2007 11:18 am) Wrong assumption, kid. No need for you to be cute, it won't work with me  Now, I remember your original post saying that the Mazda6 has a "fish tail" problem from when you drove it out of the rental lot. I have tried to get my rear to kick out, and to no avail. I am guessing your "fish tail" issues you have with earlier Mazda's are not what I consider fish tailing. I would more or less call it wheel skip or hop. Which really, today, is a non issue with Mazdas in comparison to other mfg's. Mazdas are built to out handle their competitors. I really cannot think of one car they build that it out handled by any other car in it's immediate class. On a side note, I do not need any education in Mazda history, good and bad, thank you. I have been an enthusiast for years, and I know how to research, and read, strip and build. 
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Replying to: aviboy97 (Jun 23, 2007 2:01 pm) gogogodzilla, "Mazdaspeed3 vs. VW V GTI vs. Civic Si" #1184, 19 Jun 2007 7:17 am In an early post "Mazda6 vs TSX" that was archived. A member name Stretch posted a continuous short-clip video of his red 4-cyl Mazda6 doing oversteer at the end of the track run. I believe he was decelerating to a stop on a sharp turn. My arguement about today's Mazda's reluctance to stay away from oversteer/fishtail is being shown on the Mazda3: http://www.msnusers.com/BrunoLuong/04caroftheyear.msnw "Paul Horrell (Great Britain) - sixth - The Mazda is another good-looking, enjoyable but noisy car. And its potential for oversteer is too much for most buyers in this class. Relying on DSC isn’t good enough." "John Simister (Great Britain) - last - Mazda's 'zoom-zoom' slogan dies seem to have lodged itself in the Mazda3, because it is a sharp, lively drive as befits its next-generation Ford Focus underpinnings. In fact there are times when its handling might be almost too tail-happy for an inexperienced driver." Totally lack of oversteer is boring. So oversteer isn't neccesarily bad. Uncontrollable oversteer is. That's why multi-link rules! Don't get me wrong. I was the one that has been posting around here for years saying that the Mazda3 is the best car in the world b/c it's the only one w/ German suspension, Japanese power plant & built in Japan. I also said that the 16"-rim RX-8 has the world's best ride/handling compromise (& I can't wait to see a taller roomier sedan version of it in the future). It's the Mazda-donated engine that saved Focus's reliability issue. I just wish the Mazda3 has a wider rear-glass visibility like the Mazda6. That was also why I picked the Focus 2.3 ST at the end over the Mazda3 & Volvo S40.
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Replying to: creakid1 (Jun 23, 2007 7:58 pm) IE - When I pulled out of the Hertz Rent-a-Car lot at the BWI airport, the front wheels pulled the car along, but the back wheels had no traction at all. As I made a left turn out the lot, the rear end of the car kept on going in the direction that I no longer was. If it had continued, I'd have ended up doing a 360-degree spin-out in the middle of traffic (which ain't a good thing).
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Replying to: gogogodzilla (Jun 23, 2007 9:35 pm) My '93 Camry SE had a scary rear skid on every bumpy left turn. It turned out that it had a defective aftermarket strut in the right rear!
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Replying to: creakid1 (Jun 23, 2007 11:23 pm) I'm assuming that whatever it was that happened for you to experience what you did, it was a very specific set of circumstances, because in 28 years and over 1.3 million miles on the collective odometers, I've only had that one event with the back end of a FWD car misbehaving. |
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Replying to: creakid1 (Jun 23, 2007 7:58 pm) Oops! My appologies!! 
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Replying to: aviboy97 (Jun 25, 2007 6:33 am) |
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