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Hatchbacks Mazda3 Mazdaspeed3 vs. VW V GTI vs. Civic Si
1379 messages, Last post on Oct 01, 2009 at 10:54 AM
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Replying to: cz75 (Sep 28, 2009 6:24 pm) wow so the current civic is going for a 6 year run huh? interesting. i just hope it has some torque. dont like the euro civic eh? lol, i personally like when honda is a bit daring. they honestly need to go back to their roots the way VW did, i guess they dont because the ep3 left such a bad taste in everyones mouth. thanks for the info though cz75, i'll check out TOV.
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Replying to: eldaino2 (Sep 29, 2009 5:50 am) The new Euro Civic looks energetic & handsome. W/o looking at its badge, you'd think its the modern version of the old Scirocco/Corrado, while the re-borned Scirocco today looks wimpy/dumpy & not too different from the old '92 Civic. LOL See post #1349 http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef6c2da/1348#MSG1348 But no matter how handsome it is, this Euro Civic w/ simple strut-front/beam-rear suspension (just like the Fit) makes me proud b/c my '2000 Civc hatch w/ double-wishbone suspension FRONT & BACK & 103" wheelbase (w/ customized pwr windows/locks/mirrors, DVD/navigation, Monaco driver seat, front sway bar, softer springs from LX sedan, etc.) now feels like the most high-tech tiny car in world! Even today's Mazda3, which does not have multilink front suspension, is heavy & bulky like a barge by comparison 
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Replying to: creakid1 (Sep 29, 2009 7:27 pm) I don't know if you were trying to be sarcastic or not. But, IIRC, that gen of Civic Si was not a hatch. Not here in the US anyway... Even today's Mazda3, which does not have multilink front suspension, is heavy & bulky like a barge by comparison Todays Mazda3 is bigger then many cars from 10 years ago. C'mon..gimme a break. The Mazda3 does have multilink rear though and has best in class handling. That is what matters. Not what hit the streets 10 years ago.
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Replying to: aviboy97 (Sep 30, 2009 9:50 am) My point is that cars w/ small-exterior don't come w/ high-tech multi-link/DW suspension ALL AROUND anymore. Nevertheless, I still hate the slow-&numb steering of my "high-tech" 2000 Civic. That's why, despite living w/ dangerously-high level of oversteer, I still can't get rid of my '90 Protege twincam, which steers so deliciously that none of you modern-car owners can imagine. I am so addicted to steering feel that I even rescued an old MkI '84 Jetta w/ manual steering from going to the junkyard. The pre-2006 Miata also steers great, but I want elastic long-travel comfy suspension as well. I remember test driving a comfy-riding MkV Rabbit, but its electric pwr steering was disastrous when comes to steering feel. W/o great steering feel, I don't see what's so fun about driving, no matter how high the road holding is.
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http://newsletter.autoexpress.co.uk/c/160V7LyScEh05lbozLM Mazda http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/grouptests/242680/mazda_3.html "Direct, communicative steering makes cornering a rewarding experience." I wonder what other Japanese car maker can do this? Ford http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/grouptests/242677/ford_focus.html VW http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/grouptests/242674/volkswagen_golf.html |
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Replying to: creakid1 (Sep 30, 2009 11:24 am) +1 I still can't get rid of my '90 Protege twincam, which steers so deliciously that none of you modern-car owners can imagine My '05 Mazda6 has great steering feel as well. No electric assist. The Mazdaspeed3 has a more weighty feeling then the regular Mazda3. I don't like floaty steering systems. |
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Replying to: creakid1 (Sep 30, 2009 11:24 am)
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Replying to: eldaino2 (Oct 01, 2009 9:24 am) Nevertheless, the MkVI GTI has improved steering feel over the MkV: http://newsletter.evo.co.uk/c/161K9906Oxy4ApC7jmw "Spot on – although it takes me a while to work my way up to that level. The new GTI is fearfully competent. Does that concern you? It should. True, the last Golf was not a raw, trembling ball of energy either, settling for being richly satisfying instead, but in the new one you really have to go looking for entertainment. Cruise around and the stunning damping composure means the car is always too much in control, too able. So you hurl it into a tight-ish third-gear corner. Aha… now we’re talking. Now the steering is more alert, now you can feel what’s going on, now the front end sharpens up a treat. Now it’s a GTI. It’s a neat trick, a sudden sense of layers pulled back, true character revealed, but it’s also frustrating knowing how hard you have to drive it to have fun." The Scirocco uses Passat's rear suspension just like the Control Blades originally from the Focus/Mazda3. Not sure if the MkV GTI switched away from Control Blades on the MkVI. Does any body know? The whole point is that, compare to the MkV GTI, the MkVI GTI is "too much in control, too able" so "it’s also frustrating knowing how hard you have to drive it to have fun." Now w/ optional Adaptive Chassis Control that changes the damper setting under different situations, no wonder it can handle more competently w/o making the overall ride quality any harder. My recommendation is choosing the MkVI Rabbit w/ Adaptive Chassis Control (hopefully will be available here eventually) over the MkV GTI, so you can handle nearly as well as the MkV GTI while still rides like a limo
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Replying to: creakid1 (Oct 01, 2009 10:01 am) i dunno if i would find a car thats 'too' in control a terrible thing, but its nice to know they made the steering better. adaptive chassis control is not listed as anything that will even be available on either the gti or golf, so no limo like shenanigans.
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Replying to: eldaino2 (Oct 01, 2009 10:08 am) At least in Europe, the suspension of the Golf w/o the ACC option doesn't come in the soft setting. So you have to chip out enough $ to buy the ACC in order to ride like a limo. These days, I noticed this similar strategy in the US, where the lowest-price C-class Mercedes is forced to include the lowered sport suspension. That's right, only the rich deserve to ride in a limo. I remembered test driving all the Mazda cars at the 2004 or 2005 Mazda Rev It Up event. None had great steering feel except the Miata. The Mazda6 6-cyl rode & handled worse than the Mazda6 4-cyl. The RX-8 rode limo soft! Later, I test drove more RX-8's at the dealers & found only the base model w/ soft suspension & 16" wheels did ride like a limo while the handling was still 'too' in control for me to explore the limit. So, yes, it's a terrible thing. LOL I'd rather drift the '05 Miata w/ LSD (limited-slip differential) all day long! So I ended up picking up a Focus ST 2.3 w/ pure hydraulic steering, but neither its ride comfort nor the road holding can match the base RX-8, which unfortunately fishtailed badly in the rain due to RWD & un-availability of stability control! |
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