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Coupes & Convertibles Sports Cars - The Definitive Discussion 
522 messages, Last post on Dec 08, 2007 at 6:07 PM
You are in the Coupes & Convertibles Forum. Your Host is claires
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Replying to: paisan (Dec 07, 2007 7:35 pm) I don't see any fire suppression on either car. I don't see any roll cages on either car. Heck I don't even see seats that would be legal in even the lowest level of club racing! They both have airbags, which are absolutely not allowed in racing. The picture of the Z06 car I showed is the commercial version of the car Chevrolet races in their endurance events. So when I said "Here's the [LeMans and ALMS winning] $75,000 sportscar..." I was not out of line (the Z06 is a $75,000 sportscar, and races at LeMans and ALMS, albeit with interior and suspensions strictly intended for the professional racing circuit). My main aim in posting these two pictures was to show that Corvettes are sadly underrated in their interior execution, and that Porsche models are grotesquely overrated in this regard, and I illustrated this unfortunate fact visually. Also, Edmunds just banned my picture-posting privelidge on this forum. it's a little disturbing to read a post from chromedome where he approximately stated, "Edmunds said the interior of the 911 is without peer, reaches Lexus-like levels of craftsmanship and Edmunds also said the Corvette interior is flimsy and plasticky" then when I try to post pictures showing that the 911 might not be as good as they say and that the Corvette may be better than they say, Edmunds censors my picture-posting privelidges on this forum. I wonder why? Paisan, do you have an explination? I'd confront this with a private message, but this forum doesn't have P/M's.
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Replying to: chrmdome (Dec 07, 2007 8:07 pm) What's funny is that Googling, "porsche lemans alms wins podium finishes" brought up like five links relating to Chevrolet's dominance in these endurance events. link title |
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Replying to: chrmdome (Dec 07, 2007 8:07 pm) OK, good question (your last question). I think the reason I'm (or Vette fanboys in general) are being so critical of Porsche is because we're winning race after race and comparison tests after comparison tests, but some sources (especially foreign ones like CAR magazine and Germany's Auto Bild magazine) seem to conveniently ignore this glaring fact. Why is it that the foreign automotive press is so reluctant to acknowledge Corvette's superiority as a car and as a racing entity? Why do they heap on vague, abstract praise like, "The Porsche is European engineering and elegance. From the soft corinthian leather to the large tachonometer that was inspired by their racing victories, this automaker screams craftsmanship. The engine is the aural equivalent of the london Philharmonic symphony orchestra doing a Tsaichovsky composition, and the shifter feels as if it's linkage is coated with sheets of silk..." This "praise" trickles down to the domestic automotive journalist, but fortunately most journalists on this side of the continent still have enough professionalism to render the Corvette the #1 car and the Porsche (or any other automaker for that matter) the #2 car. But still, some of the fluff from Europe still occasionaly makes it to your local Car and Driver magazine from time to time. That's why we critisize. Tell it like it is, journalists!!!
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Replying to: pmc4 (Dec 07, 2007 8:52 pm) Apples to oranges. The Tahoe is a truck that uses engine/fuel management devices that are not acceptable in a mass-market family sedan. You claimed that GM has superior hybrid technology, then why didn't they use it in the Malibu? I proved you woefully wrong with a comparison between the current/comparable midsize family sedans from each company. And for the record, the automatic Corvette gets 15 MPG. The manual is rated at 16 MPG in the city, but only with the help of the "skip-shift" feature that forces the driver to go from 1st to 4th gear until normal acceleration. The new Lexus LS-F (with a 412 HP V-8) is also EPA rated at 16 MPG city even though it weighs 600 lbs more than the Vette (it's a heavy, luxury/performance sedan). Which brings up another point - if the Corvette is such a world beater, how come the C6 engine needs 6.2 litres to produce a relatively dismal 430 hp (69 hp/litre)? The Mercedes CLK63 makes 500 hp with the same displacement. Toyota stomps Chevrolet with the new Lexus LS-F. It's V-8 makes 412 hp with only 5.0 litres (83 hp/litre). And don't forget BMW. The new V-8 M3 makes an astounding 414 hp with only 4.0 litres (103.5 hp/litre)! Like I've said before. The Corvette is a fantastic sports car and an amazing performance bargain, but there's a reason why it only costs $45,000. You get what you pay for. Drive a 10 year-old/100,000 mile Corvette back-to-back with a similarly used Porsche/BMW/Toyota and you'll immediately see why you saved so much money.
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Replying to: pmc4 (Dec 07, 2007 9:34 pm) The problem with this logic is that the characteristics that make a great race car or generate great test numbers are not necessarily what make a great street car. A race car has it's cockpit ripped out and suspension beefed up. All that matters is how fast will it lap a certain course - Who cares if it rattles? Who cares if it's compliant over rough roads? Who cares how noisy it is? Who cares if it falls apart at the end of the season? A street car, on the other hand, must be refined, comfortable, quiet, reliable, and enjoyable to drive and own in a variety of environments. This is where a high-priced European sports car trumps the Corvette. Controls are silky smooth and don't fall off in your hand. Seats are well padded, supportive, and comfortable for long distances with high quality surfaces that won't wear and seams that won't split. Steering and driveline and refined and responsive, and transmit road information without being too harsh or too numb. The C6 Corvette is surprisingly competent in these areas, but a Porsche or BMW is simply sublime (I know it's cliche to say it this way). There's simply no other way to put it and until you experience the difference, you'll never understand.
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Replying to: pmc4 (Dec 07, 2007 9:07 pm) Paisan, do you have an explination? I'd confront this with a private message, but this forum doesn't have P/M's. No idea, I'm only a host in the Tuning/Modifications Area and the Motorsports Area. My guess would be that they may have limited your picture posting abilities due to possibly copyrighted material? Best bet would be to drop an e-mail to the helpdesk or one fo the hosts in the area where they were deleted. -mike |
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Replying to: fedlawman (Dec 07, 2007 11:12 pm) Yes my point exactly! I'm glad someone understands the point I was making  -mike
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Replying to: paisan (Dec 08, 2007 5:03 am) they came from Zora pushing a racing agenda against his brass who didn't care or understand and improving the performance of the Corvette. Even Edmunds has written up the Chevy small block and how far GM has extended the design to get performance levels that apply to street cars. The point of racing, even for P-cars, is to get what is more efficient and apply it to the street fleet to beat the competition where it matters, selling cars. Does anyone seriously think we would have the performance cars on the street today without racing? As for Corvette wins at LeMans vs. Porsche, at least in the past few years, the cars run in different classes. The GT2 class is a glorified street car, i.e. the GT3 P-car. The GT1 or GTS class is a purpose built race car, tube frame and has as much relation to the street version as a NASCAR Ford or Toyota does. BTW, the exotic materials, if you want to call an aluminum frame exotic, but the mag. engine cradle sure seems like it is, are what has so far kept the C6 Z06 out of SCCA racing. They don't know how to certify the safety of something they have no experience with. c...dome, be the first on your block to see what your car is really capable of ... And maybe your limitations aren't as large as they look ...  Randy |
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Replying to: starrow68 (Dec 08, 2007 6:17 am) But the fact remains that, although the C6 is a huge improvement over previous generations and is no longer the "one trick pony" it once was, it still does not possess the chassis refinement, suspension compliance, nimbleness, steering feel, build quality - overall BALANCE of a Porsche.
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Replying to: starrow68 (Dec 08, 2007 6:17 am) My main point, althought my point might be buried amongst the dialog being beaten back and forth like a red-headed stepchild is this. Statistics... ya those can't be used in any way to make a point one way or another.!!! duh... come on! Whether or not your Corvette does a 0-60 in 0.12567 faster than my 997S , I find no enjoyment in battering the build quality, interior, paint job or any other aspect of Corvette. I enjoy my Porsche totally. If we deny the heritage and history that Porsche holds among the builders of world class automobiles, Ferrari, BMW MB etc, we are just showing our ignorance. As out host has mentioned ( twice ? ) this is about street cars...sure racing improves the quality of our products ( one of my main points with Porsche ), but we are talking street cars here. Softer ride quality with a sporting touch (PSM, PSAM ) is what we look for, on the street I'm 57 years old and don't enjoy being bounced around like a bean in a 55 gallon drum. Does this make my 997S less worthy.? Here in California you will promptly be arrested for even 1 mph over 100mph. I don't need that grief in my life. So whats my point???? Go look at the 997S Porsche at the dealership. You will in most cases be treated with respect , given all the information you seek in a professional manner and most everyone will be totally impressed with the world class cars they see. The 997S is a daily driver... every car mag I've read about the 997S in review touts the car as simply world class, expensive but world class... so what do you know unless you drive it every day. How can you (Guys ) critique something with such distain using only your statistics about racing .. your not driving a Porsche everyday ...how do you know anything about the steering, shifting etc.. I've find no argument about what Chevy has done with the Corvette. How can anyone deny the place that Porsche holds ?? Chromedome |
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