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Coupes & Convertibles Sports Cars - The Definitive Discussion 
522 messages, Last post on Dec 08, 2007 at 6:07 PM
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Replying to: pmc4 (Dec 07, 2007 6:21 pm) PS I'm getting tired, yawn ( also of this ) so don't listen to my diatribe. Go to Edmunds : Full Test: 2007 Porsche 911 S... Mr. Huffman dosen't seem to find any glaring issues with the 997, his comments are on the contrary,you have to trust someone. I'm figuring it's his business so who do you believe? I'm done. Chromedome |
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Replying to: fedlawman (Dec 07, 2007 11:52 am) The Toyota Camry Hybrid gets 12 extra MPG (city) over the standard 4 cylinder Camry and adds 29 horsepower. The Corvette gets 16/25. The V6 Camry gets 19 MPG city, whereas the Chevy Tahoe hybrid gets 21 MPG city. The Chevy Tahoe weighs over 5,000 lbs, can tow over 6,000 pounds, generates almost 400 horsepower with over 400 ft/lbs of torque and can seat over eight people. An astonishing engineering feat that makes the engineering in the putt-putt Camry hybrid look like the first-generation hybrid technology it is. I say again: Toyota's technological leadership in hybrid technology is first-generation and will be for the forseeable future; GM's technological hybrid leadership is newer, better, more powerful and much cleaner. The Corvette is the sportscar leader and always will be.
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Replying to: paisan (Dec 07, 2007 7:35 pm) I don't see any fire suppression on either car. I don't see any roll cages on either car. Heck I don't even see seats that would be legal in even the lowest level of club racing! They both have airbags, which are absolutely not allowed in racing. The picture of the Z06 car I showed is the commercial version of the car Chevrolet races in their endurance events. So when I said "Here's the [LeMans and ALMS winning] $75,000 sportscar..." I was not out of line (the Z06 is a $75,000 sportscar, and races at LeMans and ALMS, albeit with interior and suspensions strictly intended for the professional racing circuit). My main aim in posting these two pictures was to show that Corvettes are sadly underrated in their interior execution, and that Porsche models are grotesquely overrated in this regard, and I illustrated this unfortunate fact visually. Also, Edmunds just banned my picture-posting privelidge on this forum. it's a little disturbing to read a post from chromedome where he approximately stated, "Edmunds said the interior of the 911 is without peer, reaches Lexus-like levels of craftsmanship and Edmunds also said the Corvette interior is flimsy and plasticky" then when I try to post pictures showing that the 911 might not be as good as they say and that the Corvette may be better than they say, Edmunds censors my picture-posting privelidges on this forum. I wonder why? Paisan, do you have an explination? I'd confront this with a private message, but this forum doesn't have P/M's.
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Replying to: chrmdome (Dec 07, 2007 8:07 pm) What's funny is that Googling, "porsche lemans alms wins podium finishes" brought up like five links relating to Chevrolet's dominance in these endurance events. link title |
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Replying to: chrmdome (Dec 07, 2007 8:07 pm) OK, good question (your last question). I think the reason I'm (or Vette fanboys in general) are being so critical of Porsche is because we're winning race after race and comparison tests after comparison tests, but some sources (especially foreign ones like CAR magazine and Germany's Auto Bild magazine) seem to conveniently ignore this glaring fact. Why is it that the foreign automotive press is so reluctant to acknowledge Corvette's superiority as a car and as a racing entity? Why do they heap on vague, abstract praise like, "The Porsche is European engineering and elegance. From the soft corinthian leather to the large tachonometer that was inspired by their racing victories, this automaker screams craftsmanship. The engine is the aural equivalent of the london Philharmonic symphony orchestra doing a Tsaichovsky composition, and the shifter feels as if it's linkage is coated with sheets of silk..." This "praise" trickles down to the domestic automotive journalist, but fortunately most journalists on this side of the continent still have enough professionalism to render the Corvette the #1 car and the Porsche (or any other automaker for that matter) the #2 car. But still, some of the fluff from Europe still occasionaly makes it to your local Car and Driver magazine from time to time. That's why we critisize. Tell it like it is, journalists!!!
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Replying to: pmc4 (Dec 07, 2007 8:52 pm) Apples to oranges. The Tahoe is a truck that uses engine/fuel management devices that are not acceptable in a mass-market family sedan. You claimed that GM has superior hybrid technology, then why didn't they use it in the Malibu? I proved you woefully wrong with a comparison between the current/comparable midsize family sedans from each company. And for the record, the automatic Corvette gets 15 MPG. The manual is rated at 16 MPG in the city, but only with the help of the "skip-shift" feature that forces the driver to go from 1st to 4th gear until normal acceleration. The new Lexus LS-F (with a 412 HP V-8) is also EPA rated at 16 MPG city even though it weighs 600 lbs more than the Vette (it's a heavy, luxury/performance sedan). Which brings up another point - if the Corvette is such a world beater, how come the C6 engine needs 6.2 litres to produce a relatively dismal 430 hp (69 hp/litre)? The Mercedes CLK63 makes 500 hp with the same displacement. Toyota stomps Chevrolet with the new Lexus LS-F. It's V-8 makes 412 hp with only 5.0 litres (83 hp/litre). And don't forget BMW. The new V-8 M3 makes an astounding 414 hp with only 4.0 litres (103.5 hp/litre)! Like I've said before. The Corvette is a fantastic sports car and an amazing performance bargain, but there's a reason why it only costs $45,000. You get what you pay for. Drive a 10 year-old/100,000 mile Corvette back-to-back with a similarly used Porsche/BMW/Toyota and you'll immediately see why you saved so much money.
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Replying to: pmc4 (Dec 07, 2007 9:34 pm) The problem with this logic is that the characteristics that make a great race car or generate great test numbers are not necessarily what make a great street car. A race car has it's cockpit ripped out and suspension beefed up. All that matters is how fast will it lap a certain course - Who cares if it rattles? Who cares if it's compliant over rough roads? Who cares how noisy it is? Who cares if it falls apart at the end of the season? A street car, on the other hand, must be refined, comfortable, quiet, reliable, and enjoyable to drive and own in a variety of environments. This is where a high-priced European sports car trumps the Corvette. Controls are silky smooth and don't fall off in your hand. Seats are well padded, supportive, and comfortable for long distances with high quality surfaces that won't wear and seams that won't split. Steering and driveline and refined and responsive, and transmit road information without being too harsh or too numb. The C6 Corvette is surprisingly competent in these areas, but a Porsche or BMW is simply sublime (I know it's cliche to say it this way). There's simply no other way to put it and until you experience the difference, you'll never understand.
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Replying to: pmc4 (Dec 07, 2007 9:07 pm) Paisan, do you have an explination? I'd confront this with a private message, but this forum doesn't have P/M's. No idea, I'm only a host in the Tuning/Modifications Area and the Motorsports Area. My guess would be that they may have limited your picture posting abilities due to possibly copyrighted material? Best bet would be to drop an e-mail to the helpdesk or one fo the hosts in the area where they were deleted. -mike |
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Replying to: fedlawman (Dec 07, 2007 11:12 pm) Yes my point exactly! I'm glad someone understands the point I was making  -mike
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Replying to: paisan (Dec 08, 2007 5:03 am) they came from Zora pushing a racing agenda against his brass who didn't care or understand and improving the performance of the Corvette. Even Edmunds has written up the Chevy small block and how far GM has extended the design to get performance levels that apply to street cars. The point of racing, even for P-cars, is to get what is more efficient and apply it to the street fleet to beat the competition where it matters, selling cars. Does anyone seriously think we would have the performance cars on the street today without racing? As for Corvette wins at LeMans vs. Porsche, at least in the past few years, the cars run in different classes. The GT2 class is a glorified street car, i.e. the GT3 P-car. The GT1 or GTS class is a purpose built race car, tube frame and has as much relation to the street version as a NASCAR Ford or Toyota does. BTW, the exotic materials, if you want to call an aluminum frame exotic, but the mag. engine cradle sure seems like it is, are what has so far kept the C6 Z06 out of SCCA racing. They don't know how to certify the safety of something they have no experience with. c...dome, be the first on your block to see what your car is really capable of ... And maybe your limitations aren't as large as they look ...  Randy |
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