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Coupes & Convertibles Sports Cars - The Definitive Discussion 
522 messages, Last post on Dec 08, 2007 at 6:07 PM
You are in the Coupes & Convertibles Forum. Your Host is claires
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Replying to: pmc4 (Dec 07, 2007 6:21 pm) No Offense but no race car has an interior anything like either of those two above pictures. Anyone who actually goes out and races or has built a racecar knows that there is very little that is kept true to a street machine once it's been converted over for race duty. I don't see any fire suppression on either car. I don't see any roll cages on either car. Heck I don't even see seats that would be legal in even the lowest level of club racing! They both have airbags, which are absolutely not allowed in racing.  So let's calm down with the "Racing" comments since we are talking about street cars here. -mike
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Replying to: pmc4 (Dec 07, 2007 6:21 pm) Without beating the dead horse too many times! Please do a little research and review the massive number on wins that Porsche has posted in the last 58 years, in all categories. Porsche has been on the forefront of bringing racing technology to their " street " machines since 1948. I remember Tiger Woods being slammed about his " B game " comment. He is an asonishing golf prodigy!.... but he has not beat Jack Nicklas' record of major wins yet.A simple broken finger could ruin his career. One win does not a legend make. Rather than using a picture to make a judgement of the interior quality of the 997 and 997S , because this is what we are talking about here..street machines ( the 997S being the most popular in the line )go down to your local Porsche dealer and take a look, preferably at one that offers a full leather interior. You will see the world class fit/ finish /material and build quality. I've seen the Corvette...More than one car mag writer has positioned the 997 as the worlds premier sports car, regardless of those who make unjustified and biased comments . Elevation to world class stature takes more than a critique of your opponent, to be a true winner you have to have class. More " Evolution than Revolution" is what embodies Porsche The Corvette and the Porsche 997 are 2 vastly different cars, from the Porsche being a true 2+2, to it's unibody contruction , European design and engineering to it's heritage and history. With the car world in general recognizing the position the Porsche holds ..how can you be so critical? It just doesn't make sense. Chromedome
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Replying to: pmc4 (Dec 07, 2007 6:21 pm) PS I'm getting tired, yawn ( also of this ) so don't listen to my diatribe. Go to Edmunds : Full Test: 2007 Porsche 911 S... Mr. Huffman dosen't seem to find any glaring issues with the 997, his comments are on the contrary,you have to trust someone. I'm figuring it's his business so who do you believe? I'm done. Chromedome |
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Replying to: fedlawman (Dec 07, 2007 11:52 am) The Toyota Camry Hybrid gets 12 extra MPG (city) over the standard 4 cylinder Camry and adds 29 horsepower. The Corvette gets 16/25. The V6 Camry gets 19 MPG city, whereas the Chevy Tahoe hybrid gets 21 MPG city. The Chevy Tahoe weighs over 5,000 lbs, can tow over 6,000 pounds, generates almost 400 horsepower with over 400 ft/lbs of torque and can seat over eight people. An astonishing engineering feat that makes the engineering in the putt-putt Camry hybrid look like the first-generation hybrid technology it is. I say again: Toyota's technological leadership in hybrid technology is first-generation and will be for the forseeable future; GM's technological hybrid leadership is newer, better, more powerful and much cleaner. The Corvette is the sportscar leader and always will be.
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Replying to: paisan (Dec 07, 2007 7:35 pm) I don't see any fire suppression on either car. I don't see any roll cages on either car. Heck I don't even see seats that would be legal in even the lowest level of club racing! They both have airbags, which are absolutely not allowed in racing. The picture of the Z06 car I showed is the commercial version of the car Chevrolet races in their endurance events. So when I said "Here's the [LeMans and ALMS winning] $75,000 sportscar..." I was not out of line (the Z06 is a $75,000 sportscar, and races at LeMans and ALMS, albeit with interior and suspensions strictly intended for the professional racing circuit). My main aim in posting these two pictures was to show that Corvettes are sadly underrated in their interior execution, and that Porsche models are grotesquely overrated in this regard, and I illustrated this unfortunate fact visually. Also, Edmunds just banned my picture-posting privelidge on this forum. it's a little disturbing to read a post from chromedome where he approximately stated, "Edmunds said the interior of the 911 is without peer, reaches Lexus-like levels of craftsmanship and Edmunds also said the Corvette interior is flimsy and plasticky" then when I try to post pictures showing that the 911 might not be as good as they say and that the Corvette may be better than they say, Edmunds censors my picture-posting privelidges on this forum. I wonder why? Paisan, do you have an explination? I'd confront this with a private message, but this forum doesn't have P/M's.
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Replying to: chrmdome (Dec 07, 2007 8:07 pm) What's funny is that Googling, "porsche lemans alms wins podium finishes" brought up like five links relating to Chevrolet's dominance in these endurance events. link title |
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Replying to: chrmdome (Dec 07, 2007 8:07 pm) OK, good question (your last question). I think the reason I'm (or Vette fanboys in general) are being so critical of Porsche is because we're winning race after race and comparison tests after comparison tests, but some sources (especially foreign ones like CAR magazine and Germany's Auto Bild magazine) seem to conveniently ignore this glaring fact. Why is it that the foreign automotive press is so reluctant to acknowledge Corvette's superiority as a car and as a racing entity? Why do they heap on vague, abstract praise like, "The Porsche is European engineering and elegance. From the soft corinthian leather to the large tachonometer that was inspired by their racing victories, this automaker screams craftsmanship. The engine is the aural equivalent of the london Philharmonic symphony orchestra doing a Tsaichovsky composition, and the shifter feels as if it's linkage is coated with sheets of silk..." This "praise" trickles down to the domestic automotive journalist, but fortunately most journalists on this side of the continent still have enough professionalism to render the Corvette the #1 car and the Porsche (or any other automaker for that matter) the #2 car. But still, some of the fluff from Europe still occasionaly makes it to your local Car and Driver magazine from time to time. That's why we critisize. Tell it like it is, journalists!!!
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Replying to: pmc4 (Dec 07, 2007 8:52 pm) Apples to oranges. The Tahoe is a truck that uses engine/fuel management devices that are not acceptable in a mass-market family sedan. You claimed that GM has superior hybrid technology, then why didn't they use it in the Malibu? I proved you woefully wrong with a comparison between the current/comparable midsize family sedans from each company. And for the record, the automatic Corvette gets 15 MPG. The manual is rated at 16 MPG in the city, but only with the help of the "skip-shift" feature that forces the driver to go from 1st to 4th gear until normal acceleration. The new Lexus LS-F (with a 412 HP V-8) is also EPA rated at 16 MPG city even though it weighs 600 lbs more than the Vette (it's a heavy, luxury/performance sedan). Which brings up another point - if the Corvette is such a world beater, how come the C6 engine needs 6.2 litres to produce a relatively dismal 430 hp (69 hp/litre)? The Mercedes CLK63 makes 500 hp with the same displacement. Toyota stomps Chevrolet with the new Lexus LS-F. It's V-8 makes 412 hp with only 5.0 litres (83 hp/litre). And don't forget BMW. The new V-8 M3 makes an astounding 414 hp with only 4.0 litres (103.5 hp/litre)! Like I've said before. The Corvette is a fantastic sports car and an amazing performance bargain, but there's a reason why it only costs $45,000. You get what you pay for. Drive a 10 year-old/100,000 mile Corvette back-to-back with a similarly used Porsche/BMW/Toyota and you'll immediately see why you saved so much money.
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Replying to: pmc4 (Dec 07, 2007 9:34 pm) The problem with this logic is that the characteristics that make a great race car or generate great test numbers are not necessarily what make a great street car. A race car has it's cockpit ripped out and suspension beefed up. All that matters is how fast will it lap a certain course - Who cares if it rattles? Who cares if it's compliant over rough roads? Who cares how noisy it is? Who cares if it falls apart at the end of the season? A street car, on the other hand, must be refined, comfortable, quiet, reliable, and enjoyable to drive and own in a variety of environments. This is where a high-priced European sports car trumps the Corvette. Controls are silky smooth and don't fall off in your hand. Seats are well padded, supportive, and comfortable for long distances with high quality surfaces that won't wear and seams that won't split. Steering and driveline and refined and responsive, and transmit road information without being too harsh or too numb. The C6 Corvette is surprisingly competent in these areas, but a Porsche or BMW is simply sublime (I know it's cliche to say it this way). There's simply no other way to put it and until you experience the difference, you'll never understand.
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Replying to: pmc4 (Dec 07, 2007 9:07 pm) Paisan, do you have an explination? I'd confront this with a private message, but this forum doesn't have P/M's. No idea, I'm only a host in the Tuning/Modifications Area and the Motorsports Area. My guess would be that they may have limited your picture posting abilities due to possibly copyrighted material? Best bet would be to drop an e-mail to the helpdesk or one fo the hosts in the area where they were deleted. -mike |
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