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Coupes & Convertibles Sports Cars - The Definitive Discussion 
522 messages, Last post on Dec 08, 2007 at 6:07 PM
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Replying to: starrow68 (Dec 05, 2007 8:33 am) I've heard that be debated a dozen times. |
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Replying to: chrmdome (Dec 03, 2007 8:24 pm) Anyway. Chromedome is unaware of Corvette's chassis architecture: The Corvette is a mid-engine sportscar; not a front-engine car (Technically, the Corvette is a "Mid/front engine" car, since the engine is located front of the driver, but behind the front axle, thus a mid-engine car. In like manner, something like the Porsche Cayman or Acura NSX is also a mid engine car but a mid/rear engine car, since the engine is located behind the driver, but before the rear axle; thus, a mid-engine car) Also, garden variety Porsche models tend to have steel frames, iron engine components like iron connecting rods, lots of interior plastics and heavy, steel components used genorously elsewhere. OTOH, the Corvette Z06 model tends to have carbon fiber chassis componentry, titanium engine components, hydroformed aluminum frames and composite suspension components. That's why the car has the world's most powerful natually-aspirated engine and the car weighs just 50 pounds more than a Honda S2000 (3,000 lbs versus 2,950 lbs) and wins comparison test after comparison test (Ferrari didn't even agree to enter their F430 in Road and Track's comparison test unless it was compared against the base $45,000 corvette and not the $70,000 Z06 and even then the Vette came in 2nd-place out of 5 cars) not to mention winning endurance race after endurance race. And since the Porsche models are made out of iron and steel whereas the Corvette is carbon fiber and titanium, the Porsche is the muscle car here, while the Corvette is the envy of the automotive world. |
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Replying to: pmc4 (Dec 05, 2007 9:45 pm) Only when Porsche and Ferrari develop their own cheap plastic interiors, notchy shifters, numb steering, and leaf-spring suspensions can they cease envying the exalted Chevrolet.
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Replying to: fedlawman (Dec 05, 2007 10:03 pm) "the Corvette is the envy of the automotive world." Only when Porsche and Ferrari develop their own cheap plastic interiors, notchy shifters, numb steering, and leaf-spring suspensions can they cease envying the exalted Chevrolet. Well put. To each his own though. Sometimes people are ledgends in their own mind  This debate is not likely to get solved here or anywhere. Some people like the vette, some don't. Then again I get into debates on a few hi-performance boat boards that I'm on about how buying a non-american truck is anti-american, when in fact a lot of "american" trucks are made in Canada and Mexico, whereas a lot of the "japanese" trucks are made in the US. -mike
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Replying to: paisan (Dec 06, 2007 4:40 am) For the record, I like the Corvette a lot. I just believe that you get what you pay for, and there's a reason why the Vette "only" costs $45,000.
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for as long as there have been Corvettes so it is not likely to be resolved any time soon. I must've spent half my college years ('61-'65) arguing the merits of Big Healeys and Jags vs.'Vettes (back then Porsches were just oddball little cars with the motor in the wrong end.). I like Corvettes and admire their current commitment to balance and lightness but I think I'm too Euro-oriented to ever buy one but that could change if the ever get the fuel consumption down to a reasonable level for a world of $3.00+ gasoline.
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Replying to: pmc4 (Dec 05, 2007 9:45 pm) And I thought I was pro Vette. However, I'm pretty sure the C6Z is closer to 3130# than 3000 if memory serves. I wish that Grassrootsmotorsports had posted the results of the Ultimate Trackcar Challenge for reference, they are in the Nov. issue. A non-professional who built his car with his dad brought a C5Z into 2nd place overall and 1st for class beating several exotics with pro drivers who were in the upper class. There weren't too many Porsches to be seen but the 924S did win it's class for smaller engines and non-racing tires. Tommy Archer in his Euro-spec Viper Comp Coupe did 1:28.4 on the VIR 2.2m north course while the Vette did 1:31.1 and the next fastest of the pro shop entries came in at 1:33.8. Quite a spread. The 911 entry that was on the invite list seems to have been a no show. Randy
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Replying to: andys120 (Dec 06, 2007 7:38 am) I guess you would have to define reasonable, but right now my daily driver shows about 23mpg and that is lots of mile to 4 mile freeway jaunts which are more acceleration than cruising. When I go to the track, 100+ miles I usually get 27mpg if I keep it around the speed limit. I did have one trip last year in some rain, good to keep 275 front tires pretty slow in the puddles and came in with just above 30 mpg for the trip. A 6sp with .5/1 top gear in a C5 will be doing less than 1500 rpm at 65mph. Randy |
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Replying to: pmc4 (Dec 05, 2007 9:45 pm) Build quality and material quality/ fit/finish aside ( to me it's far worth the money ), it is interesting, relative to your explanation of the archaic frame/iron engine componets that the Porsche 997 uses etc. , that the Porsche engineers are able to keep the comparitive 0-60 times, braking etc, etc, so close , sometimes beating , sometimes not, that of the Corvette. Like I said in a past post, it would be really interesting to see the Corvette on a dirt rally tract in the Black Forest in Germany spiting a lot of mud but with no forward movement, or at a Targa Florio type road race....few " straight lines " The Porsche was built for different reasons for different seasons and with different engineering. How a 355 hp machine , rear engined , auto can post such comparitive times/statistics with that of a same weight if not lighter 500 hp auto is quite compelling on the engineering side of things. It cost more because of the materials, research , high cost of build and the Euro/Dollar values...and the overseas transport.The American mags seem to just love fueling this debate.... Chevy seems to be a heavy advertiser in " Road and Track " No Duh! One other thing I have noticed, it just seems, that the Corvette guys are always bringing up the comparisons. I don't go on the Corvette forums and post my feelings about Porsche.....I really don't care. Enjoy your car, I'll enjoy mime...by the way Porsche AG is the number "1" most profitable, successful auto maker EVER. GM has lost more money over the last 10 years than you could stuff in the superdome.....wonder why?? Chromedome
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Replying to: pmc4 (Dec 05, 2007 9:45 pm) Yes , and by the way the " little black car " in the picture posted is an early VW...we all know the success story behind that company. Porsche AG , also by the way, is a major shareholder in Volkswagen...WHY????? Because Porsche AG has been so successful, knowing a good investment when they see one. No one in their right mind would look at Hitler as something positive , I see no humor there!... the example was used to show the heritage and history behind the Porsche company. That aside, the racing victories stand alone as testament to the engineering and world wide appeal of Porsche that many have labeled (the 911-997) as the worlds' premier sportscar, US magazines among them. And the debate drags on, except there are very few people who own Porsches posting on the Corvette forums.....everyone is always comparing their cars to Porsche. Obviously Porsche is the standard to which many others must compare. Nuff said! Chromedome
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