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Coupes & Convertibles Sports Cars - The Definitive Discussion 
522 messages, Last post on Dec 08, 2007 at 6:07 PM
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Replying to: pmc4 (Nov 18, 2007 7:16 pm) I can't see a putt-putt like a Boxster or Cayman which has less power than most V6 family sedans 'racing' on a race track. Ferrari F430 certainly and Z06 definately but a Porsche? Wow, I guess I'm a real idiot then! I road race a 1994 Subaru Impreza Turbo. As for a Z06? Haaa, with my Legacy GT Wagon I usually lap those guys at Watkins in the spring and fall when it's nice and cold and damp out. I actually rarely see any Ferraris or Z06s racing on US tracks. Here and there you see em but the majority are Miatas, Hondas, Acuras, Nissans, Mustangs, BMWs. Here's a pic of my racecar...  
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Replying to: pmc4 (Nov 18, 2007 6:59 pm) C4 was a weak example of a Corvette. My brother-in-law buys and sells those, he's owned 3. I never understood the appeal. C5/C6 on the other hand...
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Replying to: paisan (Nov 18, 2007 7:34 pm) I can't see a putt-putt like a Boxster or Cayman which has less power than most V6 family sedans 'racing' on a race track. Ferrari F430 certainly and Z06 definately but a Porsche? You are really showing your complete ignorance of what sports cars and tracking them is all about. Even if it were true that the 250 HP of the base Boxster/ Cayman were less than "most V6 family sedans" they would still be miles ahead in such track essentials as power-to-weight, balance cornering and braking. Tracking isn't about power, it's about wringing the most out of a car and sports car cognoscenti will tell you the little Porsches have more "most" than most other cars. Our friend Shifty said it best when he said "It's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow". If you'd ever seen a Mini-Cooper or an Alfa GTV scoot around a 427 'Vette at Lime Rock or Laguna Seca you'd know what I meant.
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Replying to: andys120 (Nov 19, 2007 11:00 am) Tracking isn't about power, it's about wringing the most out of a car and sports car cognoscenti will tell you the little Porsches have more "most" than most other cars. Our friend Shifty said it best when he said "It's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow". If you'd ever seen a Mini-Cooper or an Alfa GTV scoot around a 427 'Vette at Lime Rock or Laguna Seca you'd know what I meant. Well put. Another thing that I like to adhere to is "In order to finish FIRST, first you must FINISH" I can't tell you how many positions we have moved up during races due to attrition from cars that are fast, but have mechanical issues and our "slow" car passes them while they are sitting in the pits.... -mike |
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Replying to: ateixeira (Nov 19, 2007 7:20 am) C4 was a weak example of a Corvette. My brother-in-law buys and sells those, he's owned 3. I never understood the appeal. The reason I picked the C4 was that the Porsche 924's were selling at roughly the same time the C4's went on sale. Remember, both the C4 and the 924 were selling for $10,000 at about the same time. I would have failed to get my point across if I said, "In 1983 you could have wasted your money on a $10,000 924 if you saved up the $35,000 that in 1997 would fetch you a great C5..."
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Replying to: andys120 (Nov 19, 2007 11:00 am) Tracking isn't about power, it's about wringing the most out of a car and sports car cognoscenti will tell you the little Porsches have more "most" than most other cars. Our friend Shifty said it best when he said "It's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow". My, don't we all suffer from the 'underdog' syndrome on this message board! (The 'underdog syndrome' was suffered from the Toyota fanboys back during the 90's because Toyota was way behind the greedy capitalist pigs at GM in terms of revenue generation. What's funny is now that Toyota is the greedy capitalist pig, and at #1, the underdogs are still behind Toyota for some reason--they should have defected to GM, but then I digress...) Truth be told, cars that are 'well-balanced' or that 'handle like a surgical scalpel' or (the one I hate the most) have "telepathic steering" are suitable for curvy road corses ("the Twisties") only. ("Telepathic steering"? What's next? An optional Ouiji board? Crystal ball shifters instead of cue ball shifters?). Handling takes second-place on the track. That's why cars like the Z06 or rear-engined 911's rule at the track, but feel cumbersome or otherwise unwieldy at the road course. mid/rear cars like the Cayman and mid-engine econo-boxes like the Boxster will fare well on the road course, because they feel lighter than they really are, thus, inspiring driver confidence.
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Replying to: pmc4 (Nov 19, 2007 3:53 pm) Oh you mean the DRAG STRIP. Then I agree, the Z06 will be faster. As I've stated, how many road course miles have you driven or instructed at? I have many many years at the road courses and time and time again the Z06 is passed easily by more nimble, far superior handling cars. My own 05 Legacy GT at Watkins Glen has passed tons and tons of Z06s over the years. -mike |
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Replying to: paisan (Nov 19, 2007 4:35 pm) As I've stated, how many road course miles have you driven or instructed at? I have many many years at the road courses and time and time again the Z06 is passed easily by more nimble, far superior handling cars. My own 05 Legacy GT at Watkins Glen has passed tons and tons of Z06s over the years. Mike, it seems an introduction to Automotive Racing 101 is in tall order. The Corvette is a sportscar, not a musclecar nor a dragster, thus it belongs on a track and not a drag strip as you suggest. Secondly, anyone who loves their Subaru can register their car at any amateur racing event; there's a racing event held here in San Diego at Qualcomm Stadium and all kinds of cars are there. History has shown the Corvettes race the shortest lap times at this track (at or around 54 seconds) with cars like the Mazda RX8's finishing around very suprising 56-57 seconds (great-looking cars on this track, I might add!). Cars like yours usually finish very late, around 65 seconds and such. No one in their right mind would accept your fantasy that your car can remotely touch a stock Vette let alone a Z06; your car would lose to any stock vette save for the C1's and C2's. Even if your car is heavily modified, you cannot bypass the laws of physics, Mike. -- The Subaru Legacy GT-- heavy, pondering, 250 hp near sport sedan that retails around Honda Accord territory ($25,000) cannot compete against a toned-down version of a podium-finishing endurance racer that won virtually every world-renown endurance racing circuit it ever participated in (24-hr at LeMans; ALMS). Your car is going against a car that routinely defeats Porsche GT-class and Viper GTS-class racing cars. Heavy, numb, $25,000 3-Series contender with a steel chassis, 250 horsepower turbo'ed I4, standard family sedan clutch, .86g of grip on the skidpad and foregone technology versus a near-exotic that has carbon fiber panels, all-aluminum chassis construction, an Empire State-moving engine with 500 horsepower and 490 ft/lbs of torque that's arguably the most tuned powerplant in the industry and 19" tires that runs on EMT tires that can pull well over .95g's of grip, magnesium engine cradle and an illustrius racing history on the world's endurance racing circuits? I'd go with the latter... Mike, you can register your Subaru in an amateur, local racing event and actually race it in a class, but in the end it's still just a Subaru.
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Replying to: pmc4 (Nov 19, 2007 9:34 pm)
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Replying to: hotrod81 (Nov 20, 2007 3:50 am) 
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