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Coupes & Convertibles Sports Cars - The Definitive Discussion 
522 messages, Last post on Dec 08, 2007 at 6:07 PM
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Replying to: starrow68 (Feb 19, 2007 6:01 pm) hearing all three going down the front straight fully wound out was glorious. I can't see how you think Ferrari's are beautiful, unless, of course, you think a Toyota Camry is beautiful...   I know it's hard to tell, but the first car is the Camry and the second car is the Ferrari... |
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Replying to: paisan (Nov 18, 2007 7:08 pm) I've driven Porsches on-track as a track instructor and they are far and beyond most other cars out on the road, stock to stock in terms of sports car ability. Mike, why on God's Green Earth would anybody want to take a Porsche on a track? The 'Ring I can understand, but a track? I can't see a putt-putt like a Boxster or Cayman which has less power than most V6 family sedans 'racing' on a race track. Ferrari F430 certainly and Z06 definately but a Porsche?
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Replying to: andys120 (Mar 05, 2007 3:44 pm) There are lots of people who think the high prices of 3-series sedans are not justified by any concrete advantage over competitors from Lexus, Inifinti, Acura and Audi to name a few. The high price of BMDubya is not justified! I mean, the BMW 3-Series is little more than a European taxi. The difference between the two is the American-spec 3-Series has a vinyl interior (not even real leather!), a 6-cylinder engine and about $30,000 increase in the sticker price; the Euro-spec 3-Series costs their taxi fleets $14,000. About the only advantage to the 3-Series is flat-out acceleration but then again, that's why the 3-Series is so popular in America. That's all Americans care about. Why do you think NASCAR is so popular in this country? I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see the NASCAR parking lots cram-packed to the rafters with BMW 3-Series cars, since Americans are about as refined as the vinyl siding in the BMW that rubs the butts of the Americans driving them... |
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Replying to: pmc4 (Nov 18, 2007 7:16 pm) I can't see a putt-putt like a Boxster or Cayman which has less power than most V6 family sedans 'racing' on a race track. Ferrari F430 certainly and Z06 definately but a Porsche? Wow, I guess I'm a real idiot then! I road race a 1994 Subaru Impreza Turbo. As for a Z06? Haaa, with my Legacy GT Wagon I usually lap those guys at Watkins in the spring and fall when it's nice and cold and damp out. I actually rarely see any Ferraris or Z06s racing on US tracks. Here and there you see em but the majority are Miatas, Hondas, Acuras, Nissans, Mustangs, BMWs. Here's a pic of my racecar...  
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Replying to: pmc4 (Nov 18, 2007 6:59 pm) C4 was a weak example of a Corvette. My brother-in-law buys and sells those, he's owned 3. I never understood the appeal. C5/C6 on the other hand...
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Replying to: paisan (Nov 18, 2007 7:34 pm) I can't see a putt-putt like a Boxster or Cayman which has less power than most V6 family sedans 'racing' on a race track. Ferrari F430 certainly and Z06 definately but a Porsche? You are really showing your complete ignorance of what sports cars and tracking them is all about. Even if it were true that the 250 HP of the base Boxster/ Cayman were less than "most V6 family sedans" they would still be miles ahead in such track essentials as power-to-weight, balance cornering and braking. Tracking isn't about power, it's about wringing the most out of a car and sports car cognoscenti will tell you the little Porsches have more "most" than most other cars. Our friend Shifty said it best when he said "It's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow". If you'd ever seen a Mini-Cooper or an Alfa GTV scoot around a 427 'Vette at Lime Rock or Laguna Seca you'd know what I meant.
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Replying to: andys120 (Nov 19, 2007 11:00 am) Tracking isn't about power, it's about wringing the most out of a car and sports car cognoscenti will tell you the little Porsches have more "most" than most other cars. Our friend Shifty said it best when he said "It's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow". If you'd ever seen a Mini-Cooper or an Alfa GTV scoot around a 427 'Vette at Lime Rock or Laguna Seca you'd know what I meant. Well put. Another thing that I like to adhere to is "In order to finish FIRST, first you must FINISH" I can't tell you how many positions we have moved up during races due to attrition from cars that are fast, but have mechanical issues and our "slow" car passes them while they are sitting in the pits.... -mike |
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Replying to: ateixeira (Nov 19, 2007 7:20 am) C4 was a weak example of a Corvette. My brother-in-law buys and sells those, he's owned 3. I never understood the appeal. The reason I picked the C4 was that the Porsche 924's were selling at roughly the same time the C4's went on sale. Remember, both the C4 and the 924 were selling for $10,000 at about the same time. I would have failed to get my point across if I said, "In 1983 you could have wasted your money on a $10,000 924 if you saved up the $35,000 that in 1997 would fetch you a great C5..."
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Replying to: andys120 (Nov 19, 2007 11:00 am) Tracking isn't about power, it's about wringing the most out of a car and sports car cognoscenti will tell you the little Porsches have more "most" than most other cars. Our friend Shifty said it best when he said "It's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow". My, don't we all suffer from the 'underdog' syndrome on this message board! (The 'underdog syndrome' was suffered from the Toyota fanboys back during the 90's because Toyota was way behind the greedy capitalist pigs at GM in terms of revenue generation. What's funny is now that Toyota is the greedy capitalist pig, and at #1, the underdogs are still behind Toyota for some reason--they should have defected to GM, but then I digress...) Truth be told, cars that are 'well-balanced' or that 'handle like a surgical scalpel' or (the one I hate the most) have "telepathic steering" are suitable for curvy road corses ("the Twisties") only. ("Telepathic steering"? What's next? An optional Ouiji board? Crystal ball shifters instead of cue ball shifters?). Handling takes second-place on the track. That's why cars like the Z06 or rear-engined 911's rule at the track, but feel cumbersome or otherwise unwieldy at the road course. mid/rear cars like the Cayman and mid-engine econo-boxes like the Boxster will fare well on the road course, because they feel lighter than they really are, thus, inspiring driver confidence.
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Replying to: pmc4 (Nov 19, 2007 3:53 pm) Oh you mean the DRAG STRIP. Then I agree, the Z06 will be faster. As I've stated, how many road course miles have you driven or instructed at? I have many many years at the road courses and time and time again the Z06 is passed easily by more nimble, far superior handling cars. My own 05 Legacy GT at Watkins Glen has passed tons and tons of Z06s over the years. -mike |
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