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Sports Cars - The Definitive Discussion - READ ONLY

522 messages,  Last post on Dec 08, 2007 at 6:07 PM

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What is this discussion about? Porsche 911, Chevrolet Corvette, Ferrari F430, Lotus Exige, Lotus Elise, Coupe

#11 of 522 Thanks again, by starrow68 Mar 23, 2005 (9:12 am)
I guess since I'm running stock brakes I think it can be done more widely. True that most of the Stangs and F-body's are modified to some extent and the brakes seem to be one of the simplist things to be done.   On the 944 there seems to be a good series for them in NASA, I think, just like American Iron for pony cars. Too bad I don't have the interest in keeping up my own or the money to have one kept up for me, doing some racing might be interesting. OTOH, for just a few dates a year seems like lots of work, which I get the impression is why many like it, a hobby. Running on track for the fun of it takes less time and allows more dates, any one with a performance sports car is really missing out. There is a group running at Sears Point Sunday the 3rd that I may try to catch a session with after returning from Reno-Fernley that day. Addicted, no way! Randy
#12 of 522 Seems like this should be part of the discussion by starrow68 Mar 24, 2005 (10:22 am)
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=1949   Of course I like the result, except for the Boxster and just wish the Elise would fit for a few laps. Oh well! Replies to this message: Mr_Shiftright (Mar 24, 2005 3:16 pm)
#13 of 522 Re: Seems like this should be part of the discussion [starrow68] by Mr_Shiftright HOST Mar 24, 2005 (3:16 pm)
Replying to: starrow68 (Mar 24, 2005 10:22 am) Those results seem really logical to me, and I would have guessed pretty much the same order without even running the cars. I was a little surprised the Viper didn't do better, but it is an animal and you need a GREAT driver. The poseur cars got nailed, so I'm pleased.   You can pooh-pooh Corvette and Boxster for this or that failing, or for the grossly stereotypical buyer who is brought forth into the media spotlight for a cheap shot (Corvette drivers wear gold chains, Boxster drivers are incompetent show-offs, blah blah), but these two cars are purpose built and can walk their talk, so 'nuff said.
#14 of 522 Ferrari should back the F430 in racing by xkss Apr 04, 2005 (7:16 pm)
Sports car racing will gain even more popularity this year. So why doesn't Ferrari back the new F430 in racing?
#15 of 522 Lotus for me by fredmcmurray Apr 05, 2005 (11:44 am)
Not sure what the theme of this discussion really is. There hasn't been any real attempt to define a sports car, which is probably a good thing. As Shifty points out, that discussion has not gone well in the past. I have to say that from my perspective, the Elise is the quintessential sports car available today. It lost a lot of points in that R&T comparison for things like exterior styling, interior styling, ergonomics, seats and trunk space - none of which have anything to do with being a great sports car in my mind. Well, ergonomics might come into play from the standpoint that at 6'1" and 220 lbs, I probably wouldn't fit in an Elise. Only that and the fact that I don't have $45K lying around for a fun car, prevent me from running down to the Lotus dealer.
#16 of 522 Too bad about the Elise by starrow68 Apr 05, 2005 (1:30 pm)
I too would probably consider one if at 6' 3" and 195#s I'd come even close to fitting into one. I'd love to get into something that had similar performance to the Vette, not a rally car, and could do road events at a slightly lower cost to maintain. Oh well, the new Vette is getting lots of good reviews by both those wanting it for touring and those who see it as a real performance ride. Randy
#17 of 522 it's porsche overpriced???? by 911meister Apr 06, 2005 (11:00 pm)
I like corvettes, their cool. I like the design of the 2005, it looks alot sharper. I really hope that the corvettes performance keep's improving as well as it's market in years to come. I dont really agree about comparing a corvette to a porsche boxter or 911. these cars are not quite a match. First, corvette has never proven itself in any of the 24hr le mans race, or perhaps in any other endurance race ever!!! Second corvette is barely becoming world class sports car, When Porsche has been recognized as a world class spots car for the last 2 decades. I, on the other hand feel that a "viper" would be a better contender. I have seen vipers quick some major but in enduro races all over europe and the world. Yes, vipers are more expensive but you truly get what you pay for (just like buying a porsche for example). Porsche has proven their engineering so many times at races.(for the last 50 years) Corvette if I'm not mistaking, has entered the 24hr of le mans and it has flopped so many times. I do alot of autocrossing and i have been to track meets and i have seen corvettes perform plenty of times laguna seca. (never impressed) Comparing a ZO6 to a boxter? well,the boxter has a mild 240 hp engine while corvette has an easy 120 more ponies under its hood. Maybe they are both the same price but you have to consider the fact that porsche is a foreign car therefore it has to be an expensive car. The point!!!! would be that a boxter its not comparable to a vette. A 911s or a 911 turbo are more equal to a vette (in hp THAT IS because in handling porsche would out perform it 100%) Im not speaking for the ZO7 My first porsche was a 86' 930 turbo. And this car embarrassed vettes that were a full decade newer in the late 90's. (honestly)    ' Im 6'1 in height and I feel good driving my 1959 356a.
#18 of 522 Maybe just a few missing facts ... by starrow68 Apr 07, 2005 (8:28 am)
As for Corvette being a flop at LeMans: http://www.crash.net/uk/en/news_view.asp?cid=28&nid=94209 Three out of the last four is fairly recent news so maybe you missed it?   As for comparing the boxster to the coupe or Z06, you're right, not very comparable except at the price level, too bad you're getting so much less performance for the same or greater money. I'd go back if I were you and update some of your beliefs with current info rather than relying on some history that at this point isn't very well founded in fact. JOMO        I'd be interested in somebody else's take on the ZR1 being embarrased in the mid 90's by mid 80's 930 turbos. I have a friend whos been in Porsche's for many decades and I'll track him down for some input.    Enjoy what you drive, I spent last weekend at Reno-Fernley Raceway averaging close to 85mph, but it was an all corvette event except for instructors, none of which had a Porsche, I did pass the Miatas. Passing any instructor is fun! I'll let you know if any Porsche's pass me this weekend at Sears Point . I only passed one GT3 at Laguna Seca last January, and yes he was new to tracking, third event. Stock engine '02 coupe with stock Z51 suspension on Z06 wheels and tires. If they get what they pay for, shouldn't they be getting more?
#19 of 522 sure they're worth it by Mr_Shiftright HOST Apr 07, 2005 (10:06 am)
You are talking about two different animals. Corvettes are faster than plenty of expensive cars but they are still Corvettes. Which is fine, but a car is a total experience combining performance, looks, build quality, heritage, endurance, resale value, exclusivity, prestige...all these weigh in and on some of those factors, a Porsche or a Ferrari is ahead of a Corvette and therefore worth the money to the buyer.   A Corvette is worth $45,000 and a Porsche 911 is worth $80,000, definitely. You get what you pay for...well....USUALLY...we could quibble $10K here or there on certain models...   But to argue another way...you couldn't sell a Corvette for $80,000 to anyone, so there you go...Cadillac is learning this lesson with the XLR. Don't discount the more subtle characteristics of what a car is and is not, is what I'm suggesting.   All that being said, a Corvette is just as much a sports car as a Porsche, but a different type of sports car. Replies to this message: starrow68 (Apr 07, 2005 10:26 am)
#20 of 522 Re: sure they're worth it [Mr_Shiftright] by starrow68 Apr 07, 2005 (10:26 am)
Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Apr 07, 2005 10:06 am) But, when those extra $'s are buying mostly, ' ... build quality, heritage, endurance, resale value, exclusivity, prestige... ' is the person buying the car or just the image? I'm driving the car and I guess image is a very much smaller part of the equation. I wasn't somebody who always wanted a Corvette, far from it. I admit that for many years Corvette was mostly just a go fast in a straight line kind of vehicle, times change. When with minimal skill I can consistently pass, 'sports cars' that cost more and in some cases twice as much as a $45k fully loaded coupe, what are they getting for the $'s? If it is mostly image, I'll take performance! JOMO   Just another thought, what were the last of the ZR1's going for? I seem to have heard that it was in the mid $70's as long ago as the early '90's. They did sell a few and I got to see one screaming around Reno-Fernley Raceway last weekend for a couple days, love that sound.

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