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#9406 of 9896 manuals CVTs and MPGs
by steve_ HOST
Sep 21, 2012 (2:33 pm)
In a WSJ article, there's this "like for like" comparison.
"With the five-speed manual tranny, the Crosstrek returns a rated 23/30 mpg, city/highway, as compared with 25/33 for the car with the CVT."
From reading the review, you'll be happier paying more at the pump.
Sorry, Can't Hear You Over the Subaru Crosstrek
#9407 of 9896 Re: the only clutch [michaell]
Sep 22, 2012 (12:22 am)
I've had to replace a manual transmission once. That was in a Toyota 4Runner with nearly 300K miles on it that had been abused every day of its life before I got it. $1400 and that was that - brand new transmission. As in, had to fill it with gear oil myself and do a 3K mile wear-in procedure. It's incredibly rare to ever replace the actual gears and syncros in a manual unless you really TRY to ruin it or run it so many miles that it wears itself to death. 300-500K typically, and it's usually the bearings on the output shaft that die and not the actual gears.)
And there's plenty of warning, unlike a typical manual which gives you about 3-4 blocks warning when it decides to die.
A clutch? Sure. But a factory clutch is typically $100-$150 for most vehicles and changing it is usually a simple drop and swap. I think the last clutch master I changed was $40 for the part.
#9409 of 9896 Re: things we really like about the new 2013 Honda Accord [steve_]
by Mr_Shiftright HOST
Sep 22, 2012 (8:35 am)
I'd be interested in driving one with the V-6 and 6/speed manual transmission, to see if aggressive driving would overpower the Accord's brakes and suspension.
I can readily see the appeal of the 6 speed mated to their base engine, but I'm not sure I understand why anyone would choose a V-6 with the 6/speed--I think that would pretty much kill resale value.
I suppose you could market it as the 'poor man's BMW' (don't they ALWAYS say that?) but that won't work if you actually DO feel like a poor man when you push the car to its limits.
#9410 of 9896 Re: things we really like about the new 2013 Honda Accord [Mr_Shiftright]
Sep 22, 2012 (9:00 am)
It would be interesting to actually hear/read WHY they got back into the 6 speed M/T market. Because I actually do drive poor man's BMW's, (VW's, TDI Jetta's and Touareg) . I can't help but think it has a lot to do with oems like Mazda and VW offering really GOOD 6 speed manuals.
#9411 of 9896 Re: things we really like about the new 2013 Honda Accord [ruking1]
by Mr_Shiftright HOST
Sep 22, 2012 (9:19 am)
I think as long as your client doesn't get to drive an actual BMW, then that type of marketing works just fine. But if they hopped out of one into the other, they'd notice the difference right away.
#9412 of 9896 Re: things we really like about the new 2013 Honda Accord [Mr_Shiftright]
Sep 22, 2012 (10:00 am)
Most bimmers come with A/T's. The BMW 335 D only came with A/T.
#9413 of 9896 Re: things we really like about the new 2013 Honda Accord [ruking1]
Sep 22, 2012 (10:56 am)
It would be interesting to actually hear/read WHY they got back into the 6 speed M/T market.
I'd like to think it's because they read my posts where I gave Honda/Acura credit for having some of the nicest 6-speeds gearboxes this side of Porsche (current TL is very good, previous S2000 was great). But that's probably wishful thinking regarding the value of my opinion.
As far as a "poor man's BMW", the last car that really positioned itself in that slot was IMO, the former Nissan Maxima SE, that came with a manual transmission, sport suspension, bigger brakes and the "4DSC" moniker. I had a 1995 version of that car and notwithstanding FWD limitations, it was not as far behind the 328i in overall performance as you would have thought. Quicker 0-60, a little slower in the slalom. It even won COTY awards that year. As soon as the Maxima started bloating up and went to a CVT only transmission, their sales plummeted. So maybe Honda thinks that with the 3-seires becoming a $40-50k+ car, there's room for a new contender in the sporty FWD $10-$15k less than 3 series market.
#9414 of 9896 Re: things we really like about the new 2013 Honda Accord [habitat1]
by steve_ HOST
Sep 22, 2012 (11:57 am)
Supposedly a Honda engineer reads the forums all the time so you never know. I think that engineer is based in Japan though and probably has no input on Accords for the US market.
#9415 of 9896 Re: things we really like about the new 2013 Honda Accord [ruking1]
Sep 22, 2012 (12:11 pm)
"..WHY they got back into..."
It may very well be that they have licensed/adopted the VW automatic engine "up-rev" technique that dramatically improves the safety factor for a MT in a FWD or F/awd vehicle.
More finely "tuned" (QUICK acting) TC, and/or automatic engine derating in lower gear ratios, has proved to be adequate for alleviating loss of traction, directional control, instances in FWD or F/awd vehicles during acceleration.
But that doesn't solve the problem of the driver being too aggressive in downshifting, or inadvertently so not being full cognizant of roadbed conditions and the often resulting loss of control. The VW technique addresses THAT issue.