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Automotive News & Views The Future Of The Manual Transmission
5809 messages, Last post on Dec 03, 2009 at 12:30 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: wwest (Jul 07, 2009 6:51 pm) I think a moron with a CVT will do better than a moron with a slushbox will do better than a moron with a manual. I think a well driven manual will hold its own in real world driving conditions in either case. I also think the shift patterns and "firmware" for the rubberbands and slushies is tuned for the EPA test more than real world FE.
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Replying to: wwest (Jul 07, 2009 6:51 pm) I've already shown you a prime example of a vehicle (the Audi A4 2.0T) that is available with well designed examples of both manual and CVT types, and that per the scientific and repeatable EPA tests, matches the CVT in fuel economy. This in spite of the fact that the manual transmission version is saddled with the weight and drag of AWD hardware whereas the CVT version is FWD. You apparently ignored that too. Question: Does the logical mind ignore input if it doesn't want to believe said input?
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Replying to: shipo (Jul 08, 2009 1:55 am) I can easily get 56-59 mpg  75 mph on a 1.9 T (liter) engine, 5 spd manual. It has a less than "optimized", but optimal ( IF, you HAVE to have a) 5 speed manual transmission. (for the US market) It actually was paired with a 6 spd manual in the European market. What this does (along with .205 injectors vs .184 US injectors) is easily let one get 1 to 2 mpg BETTER; and probably more germanely 5 to 10 mph FASTER !!!! It would be easy to hypothesize that the regulators that be, do not want many to achieve this, let alone it become common knowledge. Why? Because it literally blows the doors off the platform/s they champion... hybrid (i.e., Prius) Indeed they changed a PERFECTLY good and verifiable 40 or so year old EPA testing procedure; knowing full well it skews the results in the hybrid's favor and at 50-65 mph vs 80 to 85 mph !!! |
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Replying to: igozoomzoom (Jul 06, 2009 8:02 pm) So does my '92 Sentra SE-R. Or, a taller 5th gear.
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Replying to: srs_49 (Jul 08, 2009 8:07 am) 80 mph. While this took me some (early) research to discover, 1. this is app 300-900 rpms past max torque (1750 to 2250 rpms) but probably not coincidently 2. RIGHT at the RPMS necessary to keep the turbo comfortably on boost, which down stream 3. keeps the variable vanes functioning optimally and from sticking. 4. it is starting to fall of the optimum RPM's for MAX mpg. This stuff is really at the engineering level. To use these individual examples, this is (the kind of ) stuff that should be researched and decided upon BEFORE one buys. I think often times one just "lives with it" so to speak. But to be fair, this stuff is fairly well decided in advance by the engineers and most likely influenced by the bean counters regulators, etc. It is more an after action discussion to consumers, so to speak. The real diehards among us, actually do stuff like..."gear swaps", add a 6 speed manual transmission. |
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Replying to: lilengineerboy (Jul 07, 2009 8:06 pm) I would wager that for most of the time even the champions of manuals "here" would agree that the majority of the time they would much rather leave the driving, "stirring" to an ECU. A stick shift can be, is, a lot of fun on certain roads and/or in certain situations but NOT for long distance tedious driving. |
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Replying to: wwest (Jul 08, 2009 8:33 am) ?? Actually if one does longer distance driving, the best IS a tall/taller gear manual transmission !! ?? There are a host of technical and practical reasons. Some vehicles (Corvette for example) have what is euphemistically called double over drive gears (5/6 th gears). 75 mph, the rpms are just BARELY above idle.
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Replying to: ruking1 (Jul 08, 2009 8:39 am) By "preminum" I assume you mean lack of need to "stir", since in that situation the "lossy" converter would be heavily used lowering FE. Many of the newer/modern V6 engines with legacy V8 HP/torque range and with 6-speed automatics have the top two gears OD, actual OD.
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Replying to: wwest (Jul 08, 2009 4:56 pm) In the case of the Corvette, they have the top two gears as you describe and STILL have to drop the axle ratio and it still delivers less mpg than the manual and costs 1,100 to 1250 dollars more. |
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