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Automotive News & Views The Future Of The Manual Transmission
5807 messages, Last post on Nov 26, 2009 at 7:20 AM
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Replying to: boaz47 (Nov 30, 2008 8:45 pm) Same torque and same towing capacity? Funny that isn't the case with full sized trucks what kind of truck do you have? Not on paper, but in actual use after the torque converter and so on is added to the equation? Absolutely. See, they always measure engine power in a lab with a device attached to the output shaft. Never on an actual dyno with the wheels and transmission attached, because automatics suck enormous power. Also, to get those 0-60 times, they power shift the automatic after dumping it manually out of neutral at near redline. The Corvette, for instance, is designed to last 200 such full bore launches before the thing breaks. This sort of behavior is unreasonable, hard on the equipment, and completely unrealistic. Yet almost all magazines and manufacturers do it. Top Gear this last season, in fact, tried to replicate these times. Nothing even came close. 20% slower was the best their testers could manage on a test track. Add in an automatic and normal letting it do what it wanted(just hit the gas) and it was nearly 50% slower in most cases than the claimed specs. Add in lag for shifting and unlocking the torque converter when trying to make a pass, plus the fact that I can rev the blots off of my little 4 twice as fast and it's really exactly the same. Oh - the truck? A Toyota 4 Runner. 4000lbs. 4x4 gearing. V6 with 160HP(claimed) gets punked by my little ~120HP 4 for everything other than rock crawling, because there you can actually rev the 6 to 4000rpm and hold it there as you creep over stuff. With a newer vehicle? You can do the same with a 4cyl Tacoma and the V6.
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I was musing about the whole manual transmission state of affairs this morning on the way to work, thoughts that I suppose were provoked by the very promising "stick-shift driving lesson" I gave my 14 year old son last night. It has been postulated in this discussion many times that one of the main factors contributing to the decline in manual transmission popularity is the fact that so many parents no longer drive them, and as such, they don't teach their kids "the art of the stick." Funny thing though, I had no such tutelage in spite of the fact that while I was growing up I had a mom, a step-mom, a father, and not one but two step fathers. Unfortunately not one of them drove a stick-shift car for the duration of my time at home (I did find out in later years that both my father and my first step-father were well versed in the proper operation of a clutch pedal). So, that said, "Why," I asked myself, "did I even bother teaching myself how to drive a stick when I was 19 (two years after I left home)?" While I have no concrete answer to the above rhetorical question, I do find it quite interesting that all three of my brothers and my one sister have never once bought a new personal vehicle that had fewer than three pedals under the dash (I qualified it that way as we've all had automatic equipped "family haulers" that weren't offered with manual transmissions, fortunately our spouses drove the automatics for the most part). So, here we have a group of five kids, raised by a group of five adults. Not one of the five adults drove a manual transmission while we were growing up, and yet, not one of us kids will willingly buy a car with an automatic transmission. Go figure. Best regards, Shipo
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Replying to: shipo (Dec 05, 2008 4:57 am) 
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Replying to: shipo (Dec 05, 2008 4:57 am) IMO the manual by its nature is so far superior to the automatic that even after 40 years of advancements in the computer industry (and 100 in the automotive industry) the automakers STILL can't make an automatic that gives you as much control of the engine and the gears as the simple manual shifter does. Alas, we have less and less people every year, ESPECIALLY in the U.S., that know what they are missing. So despite its superiority the manual is, I believe, doomed in the long run in all but niche cars. I am hoping (and feeling more and more confident all the time) that the wide availability of the manual will outlive my remaining driving years though. 
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Replying to: plekto (Dec 02, 2008 10:04 pm) Indeed I have seen dynos (rear wheel hp/torque outpu)t with up to 20% parasitic waste, automatic transmission. Compared to 9-11% parasitic waste 6 speed manual transmission. It is also reflected in lower mph, more weight, slightly less handling and performance. ..."Also, to get those 0-60 times, they power shift the automatic after dumping it manually out of neutral at near redline. The Corvette, for instance, is designed to last 200 such full bore launches before the thing breaks. This sort of behavior is unreasonable, hard on the equipment, and completely unrealistic. Yet almost all magazines and manufacturers do it. "... I read an article on the Corvette Z06 (aka 6 speed MANUAL) , about an engineer whose job job it is to ACTUALLY get the advertised 0 to 60 mph times. (the article cited 4 seconds at the time). NICE JOB! I hope he gets to keep it given the current Bail Out Dog & Pony Shows. The manual transmission is designed for 100 "full bore launches" before the probably of components breaking increases. (i.e., dramatically   ) Anymore, even the 1000 to 5000 hp DRAGSTERS use automatic clutch packs for the all important seamless (as possible) hooked up launches. In other words, the race variable, bobbling the clutch is taken out . I like the 5/6 speed manual transmissions for the open road. No doubt it is great fun on the various tracks. However that (hobby) is a niche market within a niche market. Here on the left coast, we are blessed with the iconic and stereotypical Pacific Coast Highway (Highway 1) all the way up north. If you are a road (car) nut. This drive is truly like no other.
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Replying to: ruking1 (Dec 05, 2008 7:48 am) Here, here! I drove the coast highway down the southern 50% of Oregon last October in my (then) new 2008 Outback, loaded to the gills with family and cargo (including about 150# on the roof). It was a wonderful drive, even if the car was disappointingly top-heavy at the time. We headed to central Oregon by way of highway 101 across extreme northern California. That road was fantastic as well. |
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Replying to: shipo (Dec 05, 2008 4:57 am) I will agree, though, that automatics are easier to sell as the audience is larger. Manuals do not necessarily demand less of a premium (sometimes the contrary since there are *far* less on the "slightly used" market), but they can take quite a bit longer to unload. |
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I think each person here should teach as many people as they can how to drive stick. I taught my wife and my brother. I tried with my sister but she wasn't interested, and you can't teach a person who doesn't care to learn. Both my kids will learn, that's for sure. So let's all make it our duty to teach at least a few people how to drive stick.
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Replying to: ateixeira (Dec 05, 2008 12:00 pm)  All 3 became totally proficient after a few short sessions however. All 3 already knew how to drive - they learned and tested on automatics. When I learned to drive, I learned on a stick, so I learned driving and the manual shifter at the same time.
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Replying to: nippononly (Dec 05, 2008 1:32 pm)
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