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Automotive News & Views The Future Of The Manual Transmission
5809 messages, Last post on Dec 03, 2009 at 12:30 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: nippononly (Oct 15, 2008 7:38 am) Oh, and elias would lose his bet with me too. Many modern econoboxes, mine included, have very light clutches, and the extra control of the third pedal is especially appreciated in stop and go traffic. IIRC, a few cars now have electro-mechanical clutch pedals. No actual hydraulics.(it trips a solenoid instead) So if you want a super light clutch, all you have to do is adjust the spring.
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Replying to: nippononly (Oct 15, 2008 7:38 am) Neither surges forward, though. That would bother me, too. Question - do any manuals have floor-mounted parking brakes? That would be odd. For my Miata, I use the hand brake to exit my parking garage at work, which is fairly steep. On that ramp my Sienna will drift back a bit, but the Forester (auto) doesn't.
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Replying to: elias (Oct 15, 2008 2:57 am) That's actually not entirely true ... I prefer a manual in just about any circumstance because it gives me more control with the car - that said, "more control" is a question of what you're used to. I learnt to drive in a manual, and I drive almost entirely with the clutch - I basically step on the break only in emergencies, I regulate the transmission to the wheels with the clutch (someone experienced can easily make a car stand still with just the gas pedal and the clutch). I feel I have a lot less control with an automatic, e.g. with parking, in a real traffic jam, i.e. in any situation where I need to carefully regulate the speed. (To the extent that I'm always afraid to hit something - I still don't understand how not to make the car jerk around without a clutch ... in a manual I just gradually release the throttle, I can move the car half an inch forward smoothly ... in an automatic, I'm either pressing the break or the gas - the stupid thing creeps, and I keep stop-and-go jerking around when parking.) It's second nature, I'm used to it. However - I know people who are used to automatics, and they have similar control problems on manuals ... I don't actually think either of them is "better" - it's just a matter of driving style. |
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Replying to: nippononly (Oct 15, 2008 7:38 am) I have a steep ramp exiting my garage at work, and I'd say our 09 Forester auto handles it best, maintaining its position. The Sienna slides back a little. My manual Miata slides back a lot - so I use the hand brake trick. You kinda have to.
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Replying to: boaz47 (Oct 15, 2008 10:40 am) I must dissagree that most people in the US know what they're doing when they choose an automatic over a manual. I believe most Americans are ignorant about manuals. What I mean is, I believe that most Americans choose automatics simply because they don't know how to drive manual..and thus do not have the benifit of comparing the two side by side. Buying cars is a relatively expensive affair, and thus folks will naturally tend towards the less risky choice. On the contrary, everyone I know that has driven both manual and auto for more than say..two months... has told me that the manual is more fun and that they'd prefer a manual over an automatic. Granted, the extreme older of these folks settle down with an automatic eventually... after years of manual driving. For fun oriented cars then, such as BMW's, Mazdas, Corvettes, and such..I believe most Americans would choose a manual, if only they had first hand experience with both transmissions apriori. Another words, Most folks would pick a manual with the Pepsi challenge. Also for economic cars such as the Mitshibishi Eclypse or Honda Civic..cars like these are purchased usually by younger folk who are naturally interested in fun. It's too bad, due to ignorance, these people do not know what they are missing. For consumers of Hondas and Camrys and the like.. especially for Camry oriented mindset.. I agree.. probably their decision for automatic is correctly suited. I believe a huge market for manuals exists right here in the US..it is up to someone to effectively demonstrate or educate to the consumers what in fact they are missing out on. Joseph San Diego
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Replying to: jmaroun (Oct 15, 2008 1:43 pm) Toyota makes some reasonable manuals and has made them for years. You can get a camry with a 4 and a manual. But add a V-6 and how many manual Camrys can you buy in the US. Camry buyers are some of the most loyal so why not offer a manual? Because they simply aren't buying. Lets try and apples to apples example. Toyota made the RAV4 and Honda made the CR-V in the early days selling them as a small mini suv designed for fun. If you wanted to buy a Manual CR-V or Rav4 for 2009 how many do you think you could find? So if early CR-V or Rav4 owners had given "any" indication they wanted a manual do you believe Honda would have dropped the manual option? We are talking Honda here, they make some of the best small manuals in the business. Yet even they realize manuals don't sell well in the US. This didn't happen overnight it happened over years and today manuals make up less than 10 percent of US sales. Even the majority of the Corvettes sold in the US are Automatics if you care to research it. It isn't that they don't know what they want, the consumer is voting with their wallet with the most resounding results you can get. when given the option of a manual or an automatic 9 out of 10 consumers pick the automatic. Not opinion or speculation but measurable numbers. It is easy to see manual drivers are more passionate about their transmission choice. Some will pick the transmission over the car itself if the car they are looking at doesn't offer a manual option. But not even the most avid manual driver sees manual transmission gaining on automatics in the future. Remember even in Japan manuals are reported to be losing ground to automatics and CVTs. Only in the Old world are manuals still the choice of the average driver. So unless the whole world has been fooled into not realizing what they have in the manual transmission the consumer knows just what they want and what they will pay for. Thinking manufactures are missing the boat by not offering more manuals is simply forgetting history and wishful thinking. Not that we all don't spend time in wishful thinking. I was sad to see the demise of the family mussel car. Of the sweet sound of those old 440 wedges, 426 Hemis, 427 Rat motors and 427-428 Fords. But those days are gone as well. |
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Replying to: ateixeira (Oct 15, 2008 12:30 pm) My 1970 Challenger had four pedals under the dash, 1) Gas, 2) Brake, 3) Clutch, and 4) Parking Brake.  Best regards, Shipo
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Replying to: shipo (Oct 15, 2008 4:28 pm) 
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Replying to: steve_ (Oct 15, 2008 5:45 pm)  Best regards, Shipo
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Replying to: plekto (Oct 15, 2008 12:09 pm) Sounds interesting. Which cars might that be? I have thought for some time that shift by wire would be an option. I had read somewhere they already had that kind of brake system on some Caddys but I had never seen one. It makes since in a way. The hydrolic piston on most new clutches had already detached some of the connection between the foot and the clutch itself. Replacing the piston with a solenoid should work as well. Once they started replacing the power steering pumps with electronics power steering it seemed like it wouldn't take long. The electronics can be made lighter and cheeper than mechanical or hydrolic parts and can be made to fit any number of cars with the same parts. That sounds like the kind of improvement that could make both camps happy. |
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